E99 - Mastering Communication for Effective Leadership with Rich Hopkins

Are you ready to uncover the secret to effective leadership and transformative communication? Join us as we unravel these mysteries with Rich Hopkins, a man of many talents and immense influence. Bring your notepad as Rich, a seasoned keynote speaker, disability advocate, author, sales expert, and presentation coach, takes us behind the scenes of his TEDx journey and shares his empowering 'win anyway' mantra. This episode promises not just an inspiring story but also valuable insights into crafting powerful messages through effective communication.

Hop into this leadership deep-dive with Rich as he shares his journey in leading various Toastmasters teams. We're breaking down the merits and pitfalls of leading from the front, and the hidden value of leading from the back and middle. With Rich’s experiences, we shine a spotlight on the importance of nurturing other leaders and adapting your leadership style to different situations. It's not just about leading; it's about inspiring others to become leaders themselves.

We wrap up by exploring various leadership styles and communication methods. Rich offers practical advice on reducing cognitive load, promoting decision-making ownership, and communicating effectively. He shares his experiences of leading without realizing his inspiring influence and the remarkable power of vulnerability and authenticity. So, come along and learn to ask yourself the most important question, 'Are you living a life worth repeating?' We guarantee you’ll walk away from this episode with a fresh perspective on leadership and communication.

Check out Rich's website : https://www.richhopkins.com/
Tedx : https://www.ted.com/talks/rich_hopkins_your_victory_is_just_around_the_corner

Buy his books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Rich-Hopkins/author/B07R1L62F8?ref=ap_rdr&store_ref=ap_rdr&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true

Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richhopkins/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOJqHEhS1CtX3A4nztIBzdA
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LinkedIn :https://www.linkedin.com/company/80960291/
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Transcript

Rich Hopkins : 0:00

You want to talk? Right down to us and a language that everybody here can easily understand. Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth? What Space, water here, space, what again? I dare you, I double dare you. What we got here is a failure to communicate.

The Uncommon Communicator : 0:25

Welcome to the Uncommon Communicator Podcast, where we are here to bring you right to the topic of communication today. It is my pleasure to have as a guest Rich Hopkins. Rich has over 35 years of experience in front of audiences of every size, from one-to-one groups to 20, 200, 2000,. Sharing motivational stories, leading sales presentations and coaching award-winning speakers. No matter your audience, age or background, including private companies, entrepreneurs or students, learning to win any way will be crucial to your success. He's a humorous and inspirational keynote speaker. There's a lot of stuff you do Disability advocate, self-esteem builder, sales expert author, presentation coach and podcastor, fellow podcaster and then, last but not least, and not in your LinkedIn profile, also a TEDx speaker. Rich, it is my pleasure to have you on the program, welcome.

Rich Hopkins : 1:21

Thank you. That introduction was so good, you'd think I'd wrote it myself.

The Uncommon Communicator : 1:25

It's like those words write themselves sometimes. Well, welcome to the program. We're here today. There's so many topics we could talk about and hit on today, but today we chose that we're going to talk about leadership styles and communicating through leadership styles. But the first thing I want to talk about, just within those styles, is you do have a couple of books out there and I don't know that they're necessarily advertised all the time, but, man, you're an author as well. Actually, did I have that? Yeah, that was in there as well. And then also your TEDx speaker. You're the second TEDx speaker on this program, so I'm super glad to have you here. Just tell me a little bit about that experience for you, that TEDx experience.

Rich Hopkins : 2:07

TEDx was great. It was something I always wanted to do. I used to apply and apply and apply and get rejected over and over and over again, and I happened to catch one in Colorado Springs that were they were kind of at their early stages. They weren't a full TEDx yet, they were in their infancy stage, so they could only have 100 people in the audience. I sent in my idea, then they brought me down to do a tryout for them and after I did the tryout, I got the email saying that I was selected. So me and 10 other people got to speak in 2017. And I used my win anyway topic, which TEDx doesn't always like motivational topics. So I really had to work on twisting my motivational topic to being something that was more of an idea and more of something that people could apply in their lives, which actually helped me a lot as I was continuing to write my overall keynote speech around my win anyway concept. So TEDx was a great experience for me, both in terms of doing it but also getting ready for it.

The Uncommon Communicator : 3:23

Yeah, and that's what I've heard. The preparation, the training, did they provide you a coach?

Rich Hopkins : 3:27

They did. It was a lot of fun. It's tough when you're already a coach to get coached. You know, yeah, who coaches the coaches. Right, I did work with a coach to some degree.

The Uncommon Communicator : 3:41

Yeah, I really do love that process and I think it's a great deal, and we will post that link in the show notes as well, as I got some notes from that. And first the win anyway theme. What a fantastic idea. Where did you come up? How long ago did you come up with this win anyway?

Rich Hopkins : 3:59

I came up with that in 2011, while I was sitting in a well, I was basically a court waiting room as I was waiting to deal with a ticket for not having insurance on me when I was pulled over for speeding, and I was there for a couple of hours with a notebook, trying to think you know, I really need a theme as a keynote speaker. You know, I really don't have. And so I was just going through my mind about all the speeches I'd ever done in Toastmasters, speeches that had gotten me to the world championship of public speaking. What were the themes? What were the ideas I constantly talked about? And it was, you know, not giving up. It was perseverance, it was perspective.

Rich Hopkins : 4:48

Those were terms and I thought, you know, these are pedantic, these are used by everybody. I need to find a way to combine it all and I thought, you know, I'm the super competitive guy. I'm always about trying to win the contest, to win it, life, to win, no matter what happens, and that's where I came up with win anyway. And then figuring out what it really meant for me to win anyway, all the different ways I had learned to win anyway over the years, without realizing it was teaching me to win. Anyway, I was doing it without ever having defined it or turning it into something that I could actually put out there as an entire formula, an entire way of life, an entire way of looking at how you approach what it is you do, from going after your goals to just living every single day.

The Uncommon Communicator : 5:52

And that's what I love about that, and you make a great point one in trying to find that theme You're looking for. You know what are you going to do as a motivational speaker, but what you're telling me, though, is it's so much more than that. It becomes your lifestyle, and that's what I think the connection is, and what I really love about any type of play on words. I don't know if it is a play on words, but how you pause and say when, anyway, can mean two great things, like how I once asked somebody else that I think they it was called a quality podcast. I was on their podcast. I'm like where do you pause? Is it a quality podcast or is it a quality podcast? And they're like yes, so I love that one. Anyway, man, you have hashtagged that thing, and that thing is working well for you. It's really such a great thing that you bring.

The Uncommon Communicator : 6:37

I did we will leave again that show in the show notes a link to that TEDx talk. I recommend everybody to take a look at it. You really hit an emotional moment in there as well, too, when you're talking about your daughter, which all ties into that win anyways, which is just the power of stories. So we'll leave a little teaser there. People need to go and check that out. It's just a really powerful story that you had shared in there and the timing of that. But the other thing is I'm just going to go I'm like a fanboy of TEDx here.

The Uncommon Communicator : 7:05

I also got your out of that some keys from the win anyway, kind of taking some notes from it as you talked about another story in there about really it's the perfect example of a TEDx talk, right, or of a life change and you talk about. First you got to review where I am these are the notes that I took from it Acknowledge that you have achieved it and celebrate it, and then reset and reformulate and then act. All of those four things, I think, just run through any vein of anybody who's a leader for one and really anyone that wants to assess where they're at in their life in general. And then I love the part about celebrating it, because we don't do that enough. So then, as I did capture some notes out of that talk, which I encourage everybody to take a look at that, maybe another time we can dive into the depths of what came out of listening to that TEDx talk.

The Uncommon Communicator : 8:01

But let's talk about some leadership styles. Now, this is something that you've been in and out of for 35 plus years, right? You've dealt with communication, you've dealt with leadership, and there's also you've spoke on it as well, too. How do you feel, I guess? What do you feel is the three leadership style, or leadership locations? Is that a better word for it?

Rich Hopkins : 8:23

Maybe I'm not sure. You know I talk about leadership. I try to simplify it as much as possible. You know I'm a big pop culture fan. So when I talk about leaders, I talk about two great leaders that I have a tremendous amount of respect for, and they both have the same job. And one leads all these people and charges into battle ahead of them, and it is always right there, is always putting himself in danger, but is incredibly well respected by the people who he leads. The other is always sitting back and analyzing and trying to take as little action as possible for the situation and sends the people he leads off to deal with things as they're able to under his command. And then I always ask the audience you know who am I thinking of? And I get these answers, like you know Eisenhower and Napoleon. What do you think, james? Who do you think I'm talking about?

The Uncommon Communicator : 9:35

Well, and I was thinking like Churchill those were when you were talking about that, and then I didn't have the background type leader in my mind. But yeah, there was a couple of people popping into my head when you're talking about that.

Rich Hopkins : 9:48

Well, the key there is pop culture, because the person who leads from the front is Captain James T Kirk, whereas the person who leads from the back is Captain John Luke Picard.

Rich Hopkins : 10:02

They're both captains of the USS Enterprise and Star Trek in two different generations and they have completely different leadership styles, and yet they are both perceived as extremely strong leaders, not only on TV but in general, from people who write about leadership and people who look at leadership styles. They both have great leadership styles. So those are two of the three that I talk about, but for me, I think the most effective can be leading from the middle, where you are with your crew, you are with the people you're leading, so that you are, yes, setting an example, but also giving them an opportunity to be leaders themselves, to do the job for themselves and not always doing it for them, as the leader in front is often doing, or just kind of leaving them out there and hoping they succeed, as the leader from the back is doing. And there are good things about all three traits the best leader knows which one to be at which time.

The Uncommon Communicator : 11:10

So tell me more about this kind of choosing what leader you are, because I think you're onto something there.

Rich Hopkins : 11:19

Oh, it's a matter of the situation. I mean, most of my leadership experience has come with nonprofit organization that I think you're rather familiar with called Toastmasters, and I've been president of many, many clubs over the years and I have, at different times in my life, been a bit of a control freak where I just took charge and made sure this got done and that got done and didn't really worry about whether anybody else was doing their job. And a lot of times it's because nobody else was doing their job. But instead of me being the type of leader who would delegate or find people who actually wanted to do the job, so I didn't have to. I just took over, and that would be leading from the front, which can be effective but can also stress you out, burn you out and prevent the people that are supposed to be working with you from actually learning and leading themselves.

Rich Hopkins : 12:23

Other times, as I kind of got over myself, found people who could take these positions on, I was able to lead from the back and just let them go.

Rich Hopkins : 12:38

But usually there's always that point where you know somebody has to drop out of their position and you have to work with everybody to make sure that position gets covered, or you have to really work with people to teach them what they're doing and make sure that they are keeping up on what it is they need to keep up on, and that's a little bit more leadership from the middle. So those are where I've really learned. Those different styles is based on the leadership teams I've had at any given time. That's also what I've observed when I haven't been president, when I've been VP of PR, vp of membership in watching what the president does in those situations and seeing how sometimes the president is leading from the back so far that it's the VP of education in Tostmasters that is really the main leader, or even the VP of membership taking the lead, and watching those different personalities, the different dynamics. You can learn a lot by listening and watching instead of just spending all your time talking, which I've done for the last five minutes now.

The Uncommon Communicator : 13:54

I was not timing it at all, but that's why you're on the show, You're doing great, but you make some really great points, which is that you have to alter that leadership style. I think there's an assumption that we picture that type, a authoritative type of leader, as the rah, rah, let's go get them type of leader. But in reality a true leader of men and women, leader of people, is somebody who's there to develop other leaders, and that's my perspective from it and that's why I like the idea from the middle and also from the back, to be able to allow leaders to experience it. Sometimes they've got to make some mistakes but if you're out there in the front leading it, you're not watching them. But there's been times and I've seen it within my career, I've seen it on projects where if somebody would just step up, we can get the ball moving and that's where it takes that type of leader. And I found at times where this from the middle or from the back type approach wasn't effective for me, because I really needed somebody to just grab that chain fall.

The Uncommon Communicator : 14:57

And this is a specific story. Like we had, we took us three days or three shifts to get this one piece of conveyor up in the air on this project. I mean, it was up, we had to build a deck underneath it, but the night shift was gonna do it. And then I come in and they're like, didn't get it done. Then they were struggling, Then the day shift and then finally that third shift is when our night superintendent he just took the you know bowl by the horns and he put the rigging on himself, started pulling chain falls and people jumped in and they got it up. So he had to lead from that position. He was very similar to me as well in that from the middle. So it's such and that's why I'm saying that you know that the whole you're onto something is it's all about really finding the right moment and the right time.

The Uncommon Communicator : 15:37

I felt like in that case it was a lesson learned, because I waited too long before you just went out there and do it, Cause the last thing, very last thing I wanna do in the world is to take a tool out of somebody's hands, and you do that if you step into somebody else's role and try to lead them when they're the leader. But I think those are great. I think you broke those down really to a simple, you know mindset of the front, the middle, and did you say the rear. Is that where we're leading from? I chose the back, the back. Okay, that's much better. I'm gonna use that word from the back. Now, how have you, how have you altered your style, your leadership styles before?

Rich Hopkins : 16:19

Well, it's pretty much based on who I'm leading with. Who am I leading? Who am I leading with? Those situations are different. You have to get to know the team and get to know who you can lead from behind and who you can lead from the front, who you can lead with in the middle, and a lot of times you can't find a whole group that is consistent. You have to deal with the different people in your group in different ways. You know, sometimes you have to be careful. You talk about not taking the tool out of their hand. Well, it depends if they're using that tool in a damaging way. Sometimes you need to take that tool out of their hands and show them how to use it. Sometimes a chainsaw is more dangerous if you don't take it out of their hands.

The Uncommon Communicator : 17:10

Or maybe a leadership tip don't give the chainsaw to somebody who's using it. But yeah, that's exactly one of the things that I think we struggle with as leaders is really trying to find ways to communicate differently as well through those different leadership roles, because really in the lead and in the front you're like come on, guys, let's go, but how do you communicate differently when communicating from the middle?

Rich Hopkins : 17:38

Communicating from the middle is usually just a little bit more measured, because Tufts Masters has these definitions of different leadership styles, and for me, I've been defined as democratic and authoritative. Which does not surprise me, because that's pretty much how I describe myself earlier is that early on, I was somebody who led from the front authoritative and then I learned how to step back and be democratic, which means letting other people take the lead or learning what kind of leadership they need. When you're in the middle, you're balancing communicating outward with communicating inward, which means listening. Communicating inward is letting them communicate to you, and when they communicate with you, you learn how to communicate with them. In sales, it's called mirroring.

Rich Hopkins : 18:40

You know you have this potential client, You're not going to talk to them the same way you did with the client you saw an hour ago. If they're not the same type of communicator, you need to talk with them on their level, at their tone, address their needs, and you don't get that unless you're listening. And if you're leading from the back, you're basically just saying, okay, you do this and you do this, you do that, and then you sit back. If you're leading from the front, you're saying, okay, watch me and then do what I do.

Rich Hopkins : 19:17

If you're leading from the middle, you're talking back and forth with them about you could try this. What do you think you should do? Or maybe start with how do you perceive this job? What do you think this should be like? Well then, what do you think about this? And then it becomes a conversation. And that's why I think leading from the middle in general is the best style, because it involves everybody and creates that conversation and allows ideas from all sides and can even bring in ideas not just on a one-to-one basis, but from the entire group.

The Uncommon Communicator : 19:56

It creates a ownership as well when you're asking somebody.

The Uncommon Communicator : 19:59

That's probably one of my favorite leadership tricks and also a trick to reduce your cognitive load, or decision load as I like to call it.

The Uncommon Communicator : 20:07

You know, in my role as a superintendent, we're making decisions all day long and for a lot of people and for a lot of different situations, and there's times where you get this decision fatigue and then you start making bad decisions or wrong decisions or you're just tired and that's all part of leading. But what I have found is a lot of times like somebody will come up with just this I don't know, what are we going to do here. I need a decision right now. And then I'll ask them and they have a great idea. So I'm like, all right, let's do that. And so not only did they not only take that decision fatigue away from me, but also they had a great idea and then when I said, go do it, it was their idea and they had ownership from it. It's a win all the way around and that is that kind of leading from the middle. But I like your approach in that, in that communication style of really it's almost becomes asking questions and guiding, it's a guiding type of leadership.

Rich Hopkins : 21:03

Now, james, it's not win all around, it's win anyway.

The Uncommon Communicator : 21:07

That's the way we win anyway. Hashtag yes, see, I didn't want to have to pay the copyright on that. You're going to let me use it during the show. I'll use it as many times as we can.

The Uncommon Communicator : 21:18

Now you did touch on the Toastmasters leadership styles and I would recommend anybody who is a leader of any kind to look at what their styles are, and there's numerous tests out there. Toastmasters does one through one of the pathways where you can go I think it's every pathway you can go in and find out what your leadership style is, and they break it down into eight different categories. I've seen them broken down into six or just different styles that you can look at, but for me and for others most everybody it's a little bit eye-opening. The first time You're like I didn't think I was that way, because the way they ask the questions isn't necessarily how you perceive yourself. So I would encourage anybody to do that and then also do it again, because you're your leadership styles.

The Uncommon Communicator : 22:02

Your communication styles change, which in some cases they should right, because communication is a practice. Leadership is a practice. I think there's some natural born leaders, people that lead in that authoritative style. That's what we call leaders, but every bit of leadership can be learned, and communication is the same way, where communication is something, those styles you develop in your learn, and that's what you were talking about. Now let's I do want to talk a little more about leading from the back, because I think that one I don't often think much about that side of it, leading from the back- Well, leading from the back is kind of the ultimate in trying to empower everybody else, and so it could be good or bad.

Rich Hopkins : 22:48

It's bad if you are leading from the back because you don't want to lead in any other way. You want to put all the risk and all the potential blame on everybody else. But if you're doing it from a motive of empowering people, encouraging them, giving them opportunity not only to succeed but to fail not so they can fail and be discarded, but fail and learn from that failure so they can then succeed again the next time they try it then leading from behind is a good thing, you know. But you know, if you really want to get into, like military style, generals typically aren't going to lead their troops from the front because they're considered too valuable. You have ranks that aren't going to lead from the front.

Rich Hopkins : 23:40

Now, most of us are not living a military life, and so that's we don't have to deal with leadership in quite that way or with those consequences. You know we aren't leading life and death missions. We are trying to lead a sales team or a construction team, and that just means empowering people and giving them the opportunity to learn and having the right motives, no matter what you're doing, whether you're leading from the back, middle or front your motivation is usually key in whether or not you're doing it well and to the benefit of the people you're leading.

The Uncommon Communicator : 24:22

Yeah, that's a great point and you know, with that from the back, leading from the back one thing that kind of pops in my mind is also leading upward, and I think they're a little bit different.

The Uncommon Communicator : 24:32

That's why I like your, your take on that and really take leading from the back. But there is something like sometimes you're not in charge and that other person needs to be in charge because it's their role. You know, it's their title, their responsibilities, but you want to help guide that as well too. So I think there's a little bit of leading upward that also comes from the middle and from the back as well, because you, you want to be able to hopefully have a good enough relationship with the other leader to guide them and coach them and be open enough to steer possibly steer the direction and to save a direction, especially if they're not a strong leader. You have to be able to lead from, you know, from the middle, in that regards, and I think that's a skill set as well. Have you experienced any leading upward or leading? Yeah, is that the right word? Yeah, leading upward.

Rich Hopkins : 25:25

Leading upward? I'm not completely clear on your definition of leading upward, to know if I've experienced or not.

The Uncommon Communicator : 25:34

So let's yeah, let me, let me try it this way. So it's the idea is you've got a leader, you're you're the second in command, and that leader Need some guidance on some things. So what you do in that second in command is you're kind of feeding them information, really making them look good in some ways, but also supporting them, but not necessarily leading. But at the end of the day, if you know you were to look back and assess yourself, you can think, man, I mean, I made and supported those decisions that that leader made, right.

Rich Hopkins : 26:07

Yeah, career-wise I've not really ever been in that position. In the leadership positions I've been in, especially say, the last 10 years, because I've been in Toss Masters for 24 years, so the last 10 years I've kind of been considered an expert, the alumni, the guy that you go to when you have a question. So, even if I'm not in a leadership position in a club, I'm in a leadership position and that's. That's where I'm kind of the the first mate, the number one in Star Trek terms, the first officer, however you want to put it.

Rich Hopkins : 26:49

But ultimately, if you're relying on a first officer, you are Learning not to lead from the back. You are literally learning leading from the middle, you are moving closer towards the middle leadership position Then if you were totally leading from the back, because then you're not taking advice from anybody, you're telling other people what to go do, but that's talking in extremes. You know you've got the way back, you've got the back that's closer to the middle. Oh, I guess I'm doing this in reverse, to do it like this in the way back, and you're getting closer to the middle, no, and then then suddenly you're leading from the front, way too far in the front. So the more you can be in the middle, the better off you're going to be this. Does that answer question? Yeah, that does, and it's it, my story.

The Uncommon Communicator : 27:44

It doesn't necessarily come from me, but I used to have a Scenario. I won't actually drop names in this case, but I called it his puppet regime, because you know, he was my boss but it seemed like he had a ton of influence, and that's the word where I'm gonna go with over the other person making decisions. So if I needed something I'd mention it to him and and then, before you knew it, it would happen. So it was kind of his. His puppet regime is what I called it in regards to influence, and I think that's something when we talk about leadership and that's kind of, I think, where I was going with that.

The Uncommon Communicator : 28:14

And as far as from leading from you know, from you know, a position, a lower position, is that we have, at times, more influence than we have, leadership role, and I think that's what you're talking about as well too. You know, when rich Hopkins walks in a room, it's different than when just all James Gable walks in a room. You know you have a little bit more influence when you go in there because of your experience, because of your reputation, because of all of the input that you've put in, you know, to those, those groups and really in the world of speaking, you have a different level of influence. So a lot of.

Rich Hopkins : 28:50

I've never been a top three officer, though, like you are, you're a big wig.

The Uncommon Communicator : 28:55

Yeah, well, let's come on, let's come join us, man, come on in. But that's something that I think is People need to take into account in the idea as a leadership as well, too, in that you can have influence, and that influence is just as important in any level of leadership. You know what? What do they call a leader that doesn't have any followers? It's just a guy out on a walk you go, so you got to have some, some followers to be a leader, and that doesn't necessarily meet in the paid Category as well either. Well, what else do we want to talk about in regards to communication from a leader spec perspective?

Rich Hopkins : 29:39

well, there's. There's a definition of leadership, a not. It's more of a Level of leadership that I always talk about on my key notes. It isn't one of those main three and it's the the invisible leader, kind of the the unaware leader. When I was going through the world championship Effort back in 2006 and 2008 and failing, I mean, I took third in 2006, which is great, but at the same time, it just means you're the second loser and then you're the second loser.

The Uncommon Communicator : 30:16

To how many applicants right?

Rich Hopkins : 30:20

But I hear what you're saying 2008 I did not place at all. So you know, when you don't place you just say you were tied for fourth, and you know that works out too. But in 2008 they made a documentary called speak about the world championship. I think you've seen that and if you if you haven't, I've got a DVD in my basement I can give you.

The Uncommon Communicator : 30:44

I was actually looking for it this morning because it is on Amazon, believe it is not for like 399 or 299, 299, yeah, uh, anyway.

Rich Hopkins : 30:55

So there's this movie that Shows me that year and you know, I'm pretty confident because I'd gone in 2006, and I'm all excited because I think they're making a documentary about me going to win the world championship. Well, it turns out, of course, that I did not win the world championship, and so it just shows me struggling through the summer as I was practicing, as I was getting a new leg you know I was, I had, I went through an amputation in 2006 and was getting another mechanical leg in 2008 in preparation for that particular world championship, so that I could have a better walk on stage. And then it, of course, covers the contest itself and at the End of that contest, as they're announcing the winners, you have Me and the winner in the split screen as they're announcing and you know I'm all happy because I haven't heard my name for third or second. Nobody wants to be called for third or second. But then, of course, the other person wins and you see her jumping up and down and all excited, and you see me going, and I'm really glad that I don't have a microphone on at that moment in time, but if you're a good liberator. You kind of know what's going on at that moment in time. And then they follow me home on the plane and they follow me home in a car and they interview me and I change clothes so it looks like it may be another day, but it's really right.

Rich Hopkins : 32:30

After I've shown up on the plane, I'm exhausted, I'm depressed. They're trying to do an interview with me about how I'm feeling. Well, I feel like crap, thank you very much. And my wife's next to me and they're asking her and she's like oh, things are going to be OK, right, honey, things are going to be OK, right. I'm just like I don't know it's. I'm exhausted, it's hilarious, it's really it's hilarious in the midst of it. And you know that that story is a big part of learning how to win anyway. At that point, just three years before, I really came up with Condensing all the different things that has happened in my life into that moment, into that win anyway concept. But I say that, say this 2014.

Rich Hopkins : 33:24

I win district here in Denver for District 26. Which you're helping to lead, and that year it goes to Malaysia. So I fly to Malaysia, I compete in the semifinals when they were still in person that way and I don't place. I go and watch the World Championship and Dan and Jaya Hederaji or how he pronounced his last name wins Just going away. Everybody knew we won the contest Fantastic job. I get on the plane, I come back from Malaysia and I do what everybody does when they have a new World Champion they go on Facebook and they friend the guy or, yeah, whoever it is, because you want to get there before. They have too many friends and they can't friend you back. So I friend Dan and Jaya.

Rich Hopkins : 34:19

Now here's the deal the next morning there is a post on my Facebook wall from Dan and Jaya Saying how Inspired he was by watching me and speak, and now he was ready to quit the contest after years of not making the World Championship. But then he saw the movie and realized that you didn't have to give up. You just keep trying, you just keep going forward. And I've still got the message. When I'm giving a keynote, I'll read the message that he left.

Rich Hopkins : 35:03

But basically, this guy I've never met until until that day when I happened to catch him in passing really quick after one shook his hand, was inspired by me, who wasn't trying to inspire anybody. See, people are watching you and you don't know who it is. There are kids watching you. There are people you work with watching you. People you go to church watching you. People you go to Toastmasters with their Kiwanis or Rotary, whatever it is you do, there are people watching you and you will never know that they're watching you and you are leading them Without knowing it. And now you have to ask yourself are you living a life worth Watching?

The Uncommon Communicator : 35:58

I'm gonna let that, I'm gonna let that pause. Sit there for a minute. Man, that is that. What a fantastic story, rich, and that I've never heard it spelled out so clearly about the influence that we have that we don't know. And that's why I think I love not I think I know, I love the win anyway idea, because when you take what In some would picture as a loss, even for yourself and I'm talking about having to tell these things you know to yourself Because that was told to you by this gentleman, a story you didn't even know that you had influenced him, the winner that year of that was inspired by you as you kind of told that story through that documentary, and that's just such an incredible thing where we do, we influence and we impact and we motivate and that's a great challenge is, you know, are you living a life worth repeating?

The Uncommon Communicator : 36:52

You know those are just great words in regards to leadership and the communication. So I really appreciate you sharing that story. That was that is inspiring for me and I think it's also the thing that we tend To touch on a lot within the uncommon communicator is vulnerability and then being authentic. You know, those are things that when you really Can talk through the things that you've messed up. My last guest, jesse Hernandez, big, big time into vulnerability. I'm just barely encroaching on it because I have so many feelings I haven't even found yet. I'm finding more of them and I don't know if I'm liking it, but I'm growing by it, and what you just shared is such a vulnerable moment of of growth that influences others, and the whole key is this You're not alone, right, and that's the biggest thing, and sometimes you have to tell yourself that as well. So what an inspiring story.

The Uncommon Communicator : 37:43

Well, rich, it's been a pleasure having you on the show, having you on the program. It's been a pleasure knowing you and working with you. You're on the education team for the district you are definitely supporting. I've been a huge supporter of Toastmasters and for speakers everywhere. How would you sum up today's UC moment? That's the uncommon communicator moment. What's the one thing that people should walk away with from today's conversation?

Rich Hopkins : 38:08

If you're in a leadership position, you need to realize that listening is just as important as communicating outward, because communication is two ways. You have to hear what they're saying so that you can understand how they need to be communicated to, because there's always the way. There's always what you think you're saying versus what they're hearing you say, and unless you listen to them long enough to understand how they communicate, you won't know how to communicate. Communicate properly with them. That means creating conversation. What is talking? Talking combined with listening, it's conversation. So converse making conversation is part of your leadership style. It's essential and it's far too rare, I think, in a lot of today's society.

The Uncommon Communicator : 39:08

Completely agree. Today's UC moment, leadership is listening and communicating, brought to you by Rich Hopkins. Thanks everybody, that's all we've got. See you guys.