E104 - Trust and Communication With Jennifer Lacy

Ever wondered how communication could be a game-changer in your relationships, both personal and professional? Grab a cup of tea and tune into our latest episode of the Uncommon Communicator Podcast, where I, your host, have a heart-to-heart discussion with the brilliant, Jennifer Lacey, also known as the “famous lady.” Jennifer, an ace lean practice leader in the construction industry, lays bare her insights on the powerful role of openness and honesty. We let you in on our personal journeys, and the moments that led us to the importance of wearing our hearts on our sleeves, for our children, ourselves, and our co-workers.

Throughout our insightful conversation, we traverse the realms of vulnerability, trust-building and the magic of effective communication. We don't just talk; we share stories that emphasize the importance of being present, being heard, and being clear. We chat about Jennifer's co-authored book "Lean and Love," and its transformative lessons on improving relationships. And we don't shy away from the uncomfortable – how vulnerability can foster growth, how it influences parenting and how it weaves trust in the workplace.

As we wrap-up, Jennifer shares her inspiring journey of discovering her purpose in communication, and her desire to give people a voice. We discuss the critical role of continuous improvement in fostering trust, particularly in Jennifer's realm—the construction industry. This episode isn't just a conversation; it's a reminder of the power of effective communication, the embrace of vulnerability, and the constant journey for improvement. So, give this episode a listen - it's all about giving weight to your words, and the power behind them.

You can connect with jennifer on Linkedin:
 https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferlacy/
Find her on the No BS with Jen and  Jess Livestream: https://www.linkedin.com/company/no-bs-with-jen-jess/
Buy Lean and love here: https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Love-Letters-Relationships-RipplesOfImpact/dp/B0B2TYD58G

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LinkedIn :https://www.linkedin.com/company/80960291/
Website : theuncommoncommunicator.com

Transcript

Jennifer Lacy : 0:00

You want to talk? Right down to us and a language that everybody here can easily understand. What we got here is a failure to communicate.

The UnCommon Communicator: 0:24

Welcome to the Uncommon Communicator Podcast, where we bring enlightenment to the topic of communication. I'm so excited today to have again on the show Ms Jennifer Lacey, known as the famous lady. She did not give her name to herself. Now a little bit about Jen. She's a Texas native with a background in teaching, an author, an illustrator and co-host of the no BS. With Jen and Jess, I think you're the host because you're talking. You are a conference speaker. This is huge and I saw this on LinkedIn. Recipient of the Dallas Business Journal, 2023 Woman of the Year and Business Award. That's awesome, thank you. And for the last 20 years you have worked for Robbins and Morton as a lean practice leader. Jen Jennifer, welcome to the show.

Jennifer Lacy : 1:08

Thank you very much. I'm excited to be here.

The UnCommon Communicator: 1:11

Well, we are going to touch again on some more topics. I think last time it turned into soft skills. I don't think that's necessarily probably even your best trait, but you're so good at it, like there's so many other things that you build and build and trust. So there's a couple of things I wanted to jump into Now. You are also co-author of this book right here Lean and Love with Mr Jesse. Something Hernandez, yes, do you want to talk about how this whole book of Lean and Love came about? Real quick, just kind of read some of this.

Jennifer Lacy : 1:45

I will try. Jesse does a better job, but I will absolutely try. So he and I crossed paths. We collided on some Lean stuff.

Jennifer Lacy : 1:52

We were on a planning committee for a Congress for LCI, and me not willing to sit back and just watch what's going on. I went up and we had some really intense conversations and then, following that, he reached out and said, hey, I've got this idea, have these letters and I want to do a live stream and get people, you know, kind of talk about some of this stuff that nobody likes to talk about, and I want to do it with you. And so we kind of had more conversations, had some brainstorming, and then we dove in, did them via live stream, and then at the end, a couple of things happened. Number one is we got a lot of people that jumped in and really wanted to be a part of these vulnerable kind of uncomfortable things that we were able to help facilitate pretty well. And then people were like we need more of these type of conversations.

Jennifer Lacy : 2:40

So that's one thing that happened, and the other is that when we finished with lots and lots of hours of live stream I'm sure you know about that that people were like we just like we would love a CliffsNotes version. And then Jesse said oh, no problem, we'll just edit down and go through the all the scripts and all that and you know his patience is about this small and so he started that. He went oh, this isn't going to work. And so he said, hey, like, what are your thoughts on? Like putting all this in a book? And so we did the live streams first, and all of a sudden there's like, oh, like, let's write a book and put it all together. And so, also based on the need for people to want more of these conversations, we launched NoBS with Gen Jess platform. So all of that came from like just starting with that conversation.

The UnCommon Communicator: 3:26

That's ridiculous.

Jennifer Lacy : 3:27

And then you're also at what anniversary right now for that, oh my gosh this month it's December this month for two years, where we launched in every other Saturday morning we do live streams around uncomfortable conversations, and at first it was a little bit geared towards like just construction, because that's we both are in construction in In the lean space. But we realized, and it didn't take as long, that half of our, our audience, are not even in construction, and so we realized that things we're talking about are not just limited to the construction industry, but they are like world issues and they are things that every human being that wakes up every day Runs into these type of dilemmas and kind of sometimes these frustrations. And so, two years this month, we will, uh, people keep showing up and so we keep getting to talk about these things.

The UnCommon Communicator: 4:18

It's amazing how we think construction's in this bubble and there's a bubble of construction, but it's. The problems we face are not unique to the rest of the world, especially in Even even in finding people to do work, you know, finding construction workers Everybody's dealing with some kind of mental, you know health issue, which is really some of the things that we touch on a lot in the nobius tribe, as well as this whole Vulnerability word that you've made me stay out loud. You know, absolutely new. I keep I think jesse gave me a pass. I finally figured it out and if vulnerability is only sharing the stupid things that I've done, so others can get better. That's a level of vulnerability I'm willing to accept that one. I'll take that one, okay.

Jennifer Lacy : 5:04

I'll start started there. I'm more getting more in this show. I.

The UnCommon Communicator: 5:08

Uh oh, I didn't like saying the word or talking about it and you know, but we're seeing a movement, even within my own company, and I think that you guys are on the leading edge of it. You were talking about it before. It was cool. Really, now, if it's hitting mainstream, hitting companies that you personally haven't touched, where we're talking about it, then it's really hitting something that has found a nerve and that nerve Is raw and it needs healing. Then the only way to heal it is to really talk about it.

The UnCommon Communicator: 5:37

So those are one of the things that you know, you're really bringing a light to the industry in that and making it Okay, which one of the things that I really admire about you is. I think we're similar in how we have stuffed our feelings away, how we shield. That's probably one of my best things that I do is guard those Feelings. But you've been able to go past that and I mean you've had, you know, very, you know difficult times in your life growing up, but how have you really? What was the turning point, what was your moment of enlightenment to be able to go to this point of vulnerability?

Jennifer Lacy : 6:09

Well, um, I there's probably multiple, but let's so, historically, yeah, and I'm really, I've been really really good at the protection. So you call it shield, I call it protection, but it's that armor that, because of our experiences, because of our trauma, because of all but the hurt, all the things in our lives that you know have we've allowed penetrate, we've realized like we can control that by just not letting things penetrate and you know, and that can keep us from again getting hurt, things, bad things happening to us, but it also keeps everything else out and and so, and we can focus, we can be successful, we can be high performing and and and that's great and we get lots of accolades for that. But we're also keeping a lot of good things out and and so I'm gonna own this, like I mean, within the last three or four years. Uh, you know it, as these conversations are happening, as even the stuff that Jesse and I have done together, like I realized, like there are a lot of people out there that live in that mode, that protection mode, and that I've got to protect what's inside of me and that's okay at the detriment of what's outside of me, and as a mother of two Teenage girls right now, like you know, one's almost a teenager, the other one's 15.

Jennifer Lacy : 7:24

Like if I, if I show up that way, both places at human, at work, like how I'm, how, how am I setting a good example for them? Right, and so, as a mother, like you want to be protective and you want to make sure that you're helping them be good humans, but like I need them to be. Also, we understand the importance of you know being, you know being real, in that it's okay to hurt and it's okay to fail and it's okay to learn and it's okay to like not be okay. And if they don't see that in me, how could they possibly be able to show that to other people? So that's been I mean, all of that has happened over the course, but like that's a driving point as to when I show up and a lot of my stuff's on the socials, so a lot of my stuff's out there and anyone can watch it, including my daughters. And so what am I doing to be able to be the, to exhibiting the behaviors that that I want to make sure I can see in them?

The UnCommon Communicator: 8:20

So your moment of enlightenment came in realizing that you also need to model it for your children, so you, they, don't have to go through 20, 30 years of Of shielding is that? Is that right?

Jennifer Lacy : 8:32

Yes, yes, and it's, and it's not always easy, and there's a lot of tears and there's some screaming and there's some yell. I mean like that's parenting, but it's also within the end. Are they in a place to where, like it's okay to hurt, it's okay to fail, it's okay to make a mistake, like the world's not going to come crashing down? Because I mean, like we keep, we shield ourselves, you know to, to not make mistakes, to have all the answers, and Like it's okay for me to go? I don't know that like let's look it up, let's figure it out. There's not a lot of people that figure that out early.

The UnCommon Communicator: 9:07

Right, yeah, and then that's what I fear I'm on that path towards where I'm going to figure it all out when I'm 90, right, when I take my last breath, maybe 100. I don't know. I should eat better to live that long. But you're right, you want to figure them out earlier.

The UnCommon Communicator: 9:22

I know for us, especially now, because this really does tie to Uh, the no BS tribe and this idea of dealing with vulnerability, is our family, uh, as a history, does not talk about grieving very well, we were terrible at it and and I looked through this process here recently we recently had to put our dog down, which was first one ever, the hardest thing any human could ever do to make that decision, and you don't realize the connection that you make with that. But having to now deal with those emotions that I didn't expect and and having to try to model it to my children, who I haven't shown even how I grieved for my dad Uh was one was not at all and then for my mom, I lost it like I could not even, you know, communicate or talk through it. Then now I've got McGee to talk about, and so those are all those steps, those processes, but although those are all, come into the idea of vulnerability, like how much it's stuffing. It was so much easier.

Jennifer Lacy : 10:15

But I find our industry does that, like our industry does that, like I don't know why. We think like we're dealing with trauma or we're dealing with grief, and we then we go to work, and how do we not equate that every other human being that we look at every day and engage with could also be dealing with With those exact things?

The UnCommon Communicator: 10:34

Yeah, that's so true, that's so true, so moving. So one thing I want to do I want to talk a little bit about the book and the reason. Of course, you're here to talk about communication. This is what the podcast is all about, but everything kind of weaves into it, uh, in some way. But when I look through the book, lean in love. Beautiful illustrations in here as well. You are the illustrator of that.

The UnCommon Communicator: 10:54

When I, when I read through it and I I read the gen comments, I did, I'll tell you this is how I dissected this book. Like I spoke with Jesse and I've I read through his book of stories, which was just Brilliantly, brilliantly put together, his becoming the promise that you're intended to be. But this one here Just kind of to understand gen a little bit, and so I went to your comments, read through them. What are they always about? They're about communication, like it's communicating, and trust and there's so many things that that come out from From what you present. But this is an interesting story here and Well, quick format for our readers.

The UnCommon Communicator: 11:32

First off, as you talked about, this was a live stream, so you took the live stream notes, comments, questions, threw them into a book. There were five things. It's really the five s love letters. So you took five s scene, turned it into these love letters and this is how you can work through relationships and communication, stuff like that. So in taking that, going through those steps, you there's just blurbs, here's quotes like here's some great advice, here's a question, here's some tips and stuff like that. But here's a story that you shared. You can't rush communication. I have two girls. One is really good at math. She is walking me through her division problem. She needs help. Something is not jiving. I started to tell her what the problem was and she said no, mom, let me walk through the process. As she was walking me through it, she saw that she saw where she hadn't subtracted right. She needed to fix it herself to learn.

Jennifer Lacy : 12:29

It does that. That's one example of a thousand of and I've had this conversation recently with a friend is that, like we want to make our children's lives better and we've experienced and we've done some things that we learned from. We can help them, but how did we learn? We learned by not having someone help us and by having to figure it out. Our automatic response is like we can fix it, we have the solution. We have a whole other thing that Jesse and I do with emotional bungee jumpers that it's like I need to allow you to keep your problem. It is not my job to take your problem away. Let me ask questions that help you be able to get where you need to be. It's a prime example of that of not being the person to jump in and fix it, because how would that help her?

The UnCommon Communicator: 13:26

Yeah, and we're driven by it. It's almost super cool, right? If you were extreme one way, then you want to go and solve the problems, and I think Jesse coined the term shanking. What is it A?

The UnCommon Communicator: 13:38

solution shanking A solution. Shanking and that seems the easiest solution and it's not. And I think that's been one of the biggest challenges for me is to let people walk it through and learn it themselves. They're going to learn it deeper and better and I think that what a great example, however much our kids teach us that. But that was such a great example of she stopped you. If she didn't stop you, you were going to give her the answer and she never would have solved it on her own. And that multiplied a billion times into everything we do at work.

The UnCommon Communicator: 14:12

In fact, for me, I've taken a lot of that and when people come to me with problems, I used to just give out the answers Go do this and boom, we're on, and I don't anymore. I ask them first and what's amazing is most of the time high percentage they already have the answer. They're coming to you, ask you a question, they already have the answer. Well, why don't you give me your answer? And then we can just cut to the quick and then they own it. But I thought what a great example. But I love that you can't rush communication, because for me I'm always like all right, I know what the next steps are let's just get to them, let's move on. But you can't. You have to let it grow. And that was such a great story illustrating that it had the word communication, and so I had to jump to that one.

Jennifer Lacy : 14:51

No, that's it Well, and it just want to add to that and just saying I have this conversation. A lot is like we're busy, our words are busy, we're always like in this mode of like you know what's next and all the things we're trying to cram into our day, and that busyness makes us rush communication because we were trying, we're not thinking about the moment, we're not thinking about the person in front of us, we're not thinking about the issue, we're thinking about what's next and like and that that example it like hit, it hit straight on. Like it's not about what I'm trying to hurry up and get to after she's done with her homework, it's what are we doing right now, in this moment. And like she like called me out, like it's not what it was.

The UnCommon Communicator: 15:35

Right, right, and what a life lesson for all of us to learn. That's just, that was just brilliant. I love, love that. There's another one, of course it's titled keep communicating. Of course I gravitated towards that one, but here's another quote from Jen. There are different ways to communicate. Nonverbal communication is one example. Being clear with what we are thinking and feeling is critical in guarding against sending mixed signals. Sometimes even being able to say I need to step away or I need some time can save the 20,000 scenarios we make up in our heads from happening. Walking away could dissolve the situation or feel it.

Jennifer Lacy : 16:15

OK. So there's a lot. There's a lot package to that, that, that chunk of words right there. And so part it's two things, it's a couple of things. I think it's more than a couple of things, but we'll talk about a couple of things. Number one is those scenarios we make up in our head, the what ifs, like based on just our experience and the things we've done. It's so easy to jump to things that have never happened and that may never happen. But the, the, those what ifs keep us from making progress and those what ifs keep us from being able to see, like, the potential of what something could be. And so an example of this and it's it's one specifically is I love to take notes, like that is my way to capture things, but also to get things out of my head so I can keep adding more things into my head.

Jennifer Lacy : 17:05

So I love taking notes and I take notes pretty much in every conversation or if I have a thought or an idea. I'm like I got to write that down because I don't want to lose it. And I was having a conversation with Jesse talking about how I'm struggling with reflection and things like that, and I I struggle with reflection because I have to stop and have to like not be moving to be able to reflect, which is like crazy. And so we were having this conversation and so he's like, well, you know what do you do? He journals, you know. And so I had tried some other things to no avail, but they did not work. And so I said, okay, you know what, I'm just going to walk because I enjoy walking. I'm going to use that walking time as reflection time. And for me it's like, okay, if I'm going to do that, then I'm not taking any notepads, I'm not taking any earbuds, I'm not taking any phone. I'm going to use that as reflection time.

Jennifer Lacy : 17:53

And what I realized in that time is that I had an idea and I didn't like and I was like, oh my gosh, I've got to write this down. I didn't have anything. It's like I kept thinking and that idea grew and grew and grew, and then another idea came. That came from that, another good idea came from that, and it got so big by the time I finished walking that my reflection like it hit me in my face. Trevor, you would have never got there if you stopped and wrote down that very first thing. And so to me it's the inability sometimes to allow ourselves to disconnect and walk away and get out of the middle of the chaos so that we can identify or see something that maybe you know would have never happened.

The UnCommon Communicator: 18:39

Yeah. So you bring up, I think, a key point in any communication and really any collaboration, any battle, because I think we go into battle mode and when we're in battle mode we're going to hit that aggressively until we get our point and get out. But the idea that that's not effective in communication and I think that's one of the easiest thing for people to do is to take a breath and walk away, take time to collect your thoughts at a high level. Now you're going, you know, a little bit deeper in that you're saying you do that and then now you're able to go yourself into a better understanding of it that you never would have got to before. So there's so much and there was a lot to unpack in that one. And in fact I was looking at that thinking, man, this is probably three or four bullet points that were thrown out in a, you know, in a quote. And then it's like all right, let's move on. And I'm like where am I going to? Let us?

Jennifer Lacy : 19:32

know, Can I add one more? One more example from just unpackaging from that. That section is going back to my daughter. Is she over things? And she escalates. And she, you know, her anxiety skyrockets and so she then becomes worst case scenario. And what do you do as a parent when your child is spiraling or your child is not doing well? You want to fix it, you want to fix it and I and in those moments, like I realized, I just want to get to the solution, I want to get to where she's better, and I didn't nothing but exacerbate it. And like it took more and more times of I'm fueling it, I'm fueling it, I'm fueling it, but I, but I can fix it. I can fix it because I can fix things to like that was not the way to do it and like I had to remove myself and I had to allow her to get to a place where she could even receive Right. And we don't think about that when we're interacting with people.

The UnCommon Communicator: 20:30

The other thing, too is no, I mean you know your daughter, like you're learning her still I mean there, she's still going to continue to evolve but understanding people as well too, knowing that some need to be in that battle. Other people need that time to you know, exchange. One thing that I've realized is that I think out loud, and that's good and bad, and I found like I have frustrated some people by just shooting ideas out there and you know, I'm like here's an idea, here's an idea, and he's like slow it down, Like he wanted to process each of them. So we had a really great moment, learning moment for me to learn him a little bit. But the thing I learned about myself is that isn't effective for this individual for sure. So I have to know how to regulate that and change my style in doing that. And this is kind of a sidebar on that, jesse.

The UnCommon Communicator: 21:16

I asked Jesse for some feedback on our interview. I'm like give me what, what? Give me some little bit of feedback. And he's loves giving feedback, which only if you ask right, I'm going to change. But what I found is I clarify my questions a lot, like, instead of just asking a question, I just clarified and I really. I caught myself the other day doing it because I don't know what I'm going to ask it until I have processed it out loud. So that's, that's something I got to work on, Because I can't for for the most part, me always clarifying and then getting to the question. I should be getting better at practice in my head for other people who don't respond well to that. So it's just all that. It's just an interesting process on on how to deal with all of that.

Jennifer Lacy : 22:01

Well, that came from feedback too, which is is super important. We know that communication, that having that reciprocal conversation and having someone provide feedback and being in a place of trust where you could know that the person that's telling you that is coming from a good place and that they are you know they're. They're one of those people that you know are trying to help you Like that's a big deal.

The UnCommon Communicator: 22:20

Well, as we talked about even last weekend in the live stream. One thing that, just another revelation for me is I realized that I, you know I'm my own worst critic and that's one reason I haven't been inviting in other people, because I'm my own worst critic. Like, why do I need you to criticize me? And it's not feedback, is not criticism. So that allowing in of people to you know, help, guide me and help me get better has all been driven off of that issue of trust. Do I trust them enough? But also, for me, taking a little bit step deeper is to not let people's opinions, thoughts, whatever, affect me, like I'm going to take all I can but I'm not going to let it put me in a bunker, in a bad mood or anything. That mindset alone has allowed me to even get even more feedback, because before to me, it was always criticism, because I was criticizing myself.

Jennifer Lacy : 23:12

Well, it's it's it's the best response. It doesn't matter how horrible the that you feel from the, from the feedback, is. Thank you, and it's so simple. But, like, as soon as that's the the response, it keeps the door open for more.

The UnCommon Communicator: 23:31

Yes.

Jennifer Lacy : 23:31

Whether you like, I mean whether you go to them again later or not, but as soon as and there's so many people and I'm going to tell you they do this and it's not even I don't even think it's conscious, I think it's subconsciously that when someone says something to you or somebody gives you feedback, your responses to defend it and it's not. It's like you're doing it because you're in protection mode and we just talked. We talked about that. You're in protection mode, you're trying to protect yourself, but, like then, why did you ask?

The UnCommon Communicator: 24:00

Yeah, and that's that's in a, in a situation where you're asking and getting defensive and you're in, I would say, even a little bit level of trust with somebody, even then we become different. And the one thing I learned from Jaco Wilnick is he talks about how, when somebody's like criticizing, you hear him in the background or you just hear somebody just talking bad stuff about you that there's always a grain of truth in there that we need to accept. And once that hit my mind and I thought, okay, there is a grain of truth, okay, yeah, you're right, I do need to work on that. Instead of letting that anger me, upset me or hate that person, it's like, all right, there's a grain and there always is. There always is a grain of truth. Now, if they may be slanted, maybe they're just miserable people, but there's a grain of truth in there and if you can take that, then you become better by learning from that and what I've realized.

Jennifer Lacy : 24:53

what's helped me when I get feedback, good or bad, or even when it's something that, like before, would really hurt my feelings that if someone's saying it, they believe it.

The UnCommon Communicator: 25:03

Yes.

Jennifer Lacy : 25:04

And they, in my opinion, I can say they're wrong. But if they believe it and it's what they feel, is it wrong?

The UnCommon Communicator: 25:12

Right. But the other thing and I've given a little bit, I'm trying to give a little bit more grace, in that I tend to. I'll sometimes say things that I don't mean either, and so I want to. That's why remaining calm is the best thing to do, to ask a clarifying question and then allow that person to say well, that's really not, I didn't intend it that way, Understanding that your intention still hurt, and so you have to be able to pull that back. But the idea is, are those the right words that you chose to use and give an opportunity for that to maybe steer a different way? So there's another quote from the book. There's another. I don't know if it was Jen or not, so if they're not Mark, Jen or Jess, who's writing this stuff?

Jennifer Lacy : 25:57

It's normally. Usually the copy is conversational and so it's not specific, so it could it could be in any way.

The UnCommon Communicator: 26:04

Well, this one really connected with me because in trying to find out what, what, what is my purpose Like, what is the uncommon communicator purpose? To bring enlightenment to the topic of communication. But what's the deeper purpose of that? And I have really, probably in the last six months, realized that I want to help give people a voice and I can do that through learning communication skills, through learning techniques, through learning how to be heard is going to elevate you. So that has become my, my kind of underlining theme. I haven't told this to anyone before, but that's what I'm working on and this is what you said on. Let's see, I'm not page numbered, the page number heart. People just want to matter.

Jennifer Lacy : 26:45

Yes, oh yes. That is like that's burning my soul.

The UnCommon Communicator: 26:50

They want to be heard and that's why I'm like bam, this is exactly it. I need to hear Jen's take on that, because they they want to matter, but they also to be heard. You got to speak and, yes, there's a lot of communication nonverbally, but you need to speak, you need to be heard. This is what I was. You said they want to be respected. When we go into any interaction and put people first, it will change the way we approach the conversation. We're focusing on personal relationships. Now we save them. How or I'm sorry, how we save them, how we stay in them, how we value them, how we evaluate them and how to keep them viable. It is no different in the workspace. People want their work to matter, to make a difference. Tell me more about that.

Jennifer Lacy : 27:39

Yes. So my story behind this is when we think about when I'm going to use construction, because that's the space for you. When we think about construction, I don't know many people and I'm not saying there's not any, but I don't know many people that wake up in the morning and they go. You know what? I want? To get hurt today. I want to get hurt so bad that it impacts the financial, it has a financial impact on my family. I want to. I want to go and I want to screw up something so bad that I can lose my job and that I could hurt somebody else. I want to go, show up and get an argument with someone because I know I'm right that it will sever a relationship. I don't know many people that wake up and think that way.

Jennifer Lacy : 28:25

And so, when we look at it from that context, people come into an environment, a culture, an interaction and something, whether it's emotional or you know something. They've got some. There's got some emotional baggage that they're bringing in, that they're already in this defensive mode. Something happens and, like, the way we react and the way we respond to things is so important. But not only that what environment and what culture are we creating when these people come in, that and my, my, my visual is always like we don't have people that come into our construction site and they get to the gate and they take their human hat off and they put their hard hat on and they come in and then they're just there to produce outcomes all day long and that humaneness just doesn't play into anything. And then they get to go back through the gate, put their human hat back on and go home. Like those things don't stay inside and outside the gate, like they're bringing all the whatever the things are happening at home, their issues, any, any health problems, anything going on there, that all comes with them. And then when they're at work and they've had a big fight or something, somebody got hurt or you know something went wrong and they're now, they're going to have to work later or whatever, they're not going to just be able to shut that down when they walk back out of the gate.

Jennifer Lacy : 29:41

And so when I say people just want to matter, like all of them, the whole human, they want to matter, not just they want to make money and they want to make sure their family's okay. And so when we can look at that whole human and that when they're at work, do we only focus on the outcomes they produce or do we focus on the person? And I think, historically, because it's construction and because the outcomes pay the bills and the outcomes are how we make money and how we can judge things and how we can have metrics and all these things that the outcomes are easy to be the focus, but, like, if we're not shifting our attention and our engagement and the things that are important to us into that human part, to the person that's doing the work, like we're failing. We're failing ourselves, we're failing our companies, we're failing the people that we work with, because they don't need to think that that's the way the world works, like they are human beings first.

Jennifer Lacy : 30:41

And if we focus on that, I've experienced and when I see that environment put in place, they do better work. They get excited about helping other people and having, like you said it earlier, they get excited about sharing and something they see or something that they saw that they're a little worried about. Like for us having that platform to be able to go. I don't think that's right or this may not be safe, like when you've created something to where it's okay to care about the person first. It is a game changer.

The UnCommon Communicator: 31:15

And big time and looking at it at kind of two levels here too. First off, caring about them and who they are, just acknowledging that. That's item number one. Just even hey, jose, how's it going today? That is the first step in knowing everybody on your job, knowing everybody that they're human, they're there, they have stuff going on.

The UnCommon Communicator: 31:36

I had a carpenter on my job recently. I knew about. His son came and worked for us. He joined the Marines. During that timeframe he worked there with us. I learned about his other kids and so you learn about all of that factor. And he was probably one of the most productive people that I've had on my job sites and would do anything Like well outside of what would just be his defined scope of drywall studs and framing stuff like that. But that's all part of building that relationship. But the other side of that so that's side number one acknowledgement but the other part is really about being heard and drawing that out and that's what I love about that.

The UnCommon Communicator: 32:16

And again, this is my passion now is knowing how much is left on the table, because for two reasons we don't ask. So you gotta ask. It's gotta start with leadership. Leadership has to ask, but also they have to be given back to that, your point of making that space open enough for them to give their opinion. And that's a tough one to do in some situations because as a leader those are hard to manage and I'm finding some people don't have that skill set to be able to say no, like hey, thank you for sharing that. But in your mind you're like that's the worst idea I've ever heard. But you have to let them have that idea, because two ideas later they're gonna come up with this huge time saving effort but all of that. Those are the part of being heard, but the biggest part is the fact that you acknowledged it.

Jennifer Lacy : 33:04

When you've released control of the conversation and to me, like we love to have the agenda and everything set and this is what's gonna happen and I'm gonna make sure we're stay on time and you are controlling the conversation. As soon as you think that you are controlling the conversation, you are leaving zero space for there to be anything that's off topic, anything that takes you off road, anything that could potentially be something amazing. Like you have completely shut it down because you're trying to control it and like I mean, like I struggle with control and I'm a work in progress, for sure, but like it is like control is an illusion. Like it is an illusion because if we're controlling one thing, we are completely negating something else.

The UnCommon Communicator: 33:56

Yeah, and that is a. So we're gonna talk a little bit about trust this morning. Okay, do it. But what you're talking about falls right along the line of trust, like I've seen within some leadership, where they want to control it and everybody sees it, they know where you're going, they're talking about it and they're, like you know, telling you this, and then you're shaking your head and what they're doing is back to your illusion of control. Is we have that? I mean, there's so much psychology in how we lead that but people that are in the know of the know that you're being led that way and there's no buy-in, there's no authenticity to it, and so you can and lead and guide that way, but then it does lack that trust that falls within that whole idea. You lose the trust.

The UnCommon Communicator: 34:43

So, jumping into this book, the Speed of Trust, it's a book that I've listened to several times. I read through. It's a Steven MR Covey, it's Steven Stun, I guess, wrote the book and dad helped him out. But there was something that really stuck out for me, which I think fits into our conversation Interesting enough, and I challenge you to read this book because there is a lot of value in learning trust and that's one thing that I'm practicing, I'm learning, I'm understanding a little bit more about myself. But this is so funny. He says, well, one of his 13 principles so in this one particular principles, get better to build trust. And I'm like, what is this even fit? And he says, get better. And that's one of his principles is based on the principles of continuous improvement. Are we in that space talking?

Jennifer Lacy : 35:31

about.

The UnCommon Communicator: 35:32

And listen to this. Learning and change, like continuous improvement, learning and change it is what the Japanese call Kaizen and it builds enormous trust. So reading through trust, and now we're talking continuous improvement, all of those things. I just thought it was a strange connection. I hadn't put the two together. But do you feel like the continuous improvement path that you're on I mean, you're the process continuous improvement leader for your company Like, do you think its main principle is also building trust?

Jennifer Lacy : 36:09

Yes, 100%. And so the reason why is that? Yes, I'm in a position where I get to engage with all of our projects, all of our departments, all of our people, all of our everybody that comes into our company. I get to have interactions with them, and some of those people have not been on this 20 year journey with me or been on this 10 year journey with me. And so why, when I go into a room to facilitate these conversations, why would they listen to me? And there's moments and it's not me, not imposter syndrome of why would they care, like it's me going. Why would someone come in a room and listen to what I have to say or do? If I ask a question, why would they answer?

Jennifer Lacy : 36:55

And for me, it's because even some of it's implied, just because they haven't engaged with me enough, or because of the support that I have within our company from our leadership, that the trust is there, the integrity is there, and because of that, because of the platform they give me, because of the support they give me, they trust that whatever I've been asked to do, that I can do it. So there's that part. I think that's true that there's multiple things of trust, but part of it is do people that have tasked me with something trust that I can get it done? And sometimes they don't know what that could be, because my thinking may be way in front of where we are as a company, but they trust that because of my body of work, because of the things that have happened, that we're gonna get there. And so there's that trust, which I think is huge, because not everybody I engage with I have a relationship with. The other part of that is when I do get to engage with our people and our projects.

Jennifer Lacy : 38:01

How do you build trust? And that's important, because I don't think people think about that like they should trust me because of my title. They should trust me because I've been here and I have experience and I've done these things. That is not how I earn trust, because those are not things that I'm able to show up and go. You just need to trust me because of this, this and this.

Jennifer Lacy : 38:20

So how do I immediately put them in a place to where they're like? This person is genuine, this person is real and they care about me. And this is a word you don't like very much, but I'm gonna say it. It starts with vulnerability. It starts with vulnerability, and how does vulnerability tie to trust? Is that if I can get to a point where I take down that armor and that protection and they see that I am a human and that I genuinely care about them and I'm going to expose myself because I want to be able to connect with them? It is amazing what they're willing to do, what they're willing to share and that it happens one time, jane, one time, and I will never forget them and they will never forget me.

The UnCommon Communicator: 39:09

Yeah, the whole idea of continuous improvement, building trust, especially fitting into what we do in construction and for what you do as your day job. Is this your night job? I don't know what, I don't know, we'll cut that out. But the idea is, when you're a self-improver, so we'll go at that level, not just improving. Well, let's start with this. Your improving process is that make work easier, right? So?

Jennifer Lacy : 39:37

the they make work better.

The UnCommon Communicator: 39:40

Better.

Jennifer Lacy : 39:41

Better? Yes, because it's not always easy, Because I have behind me, I have a sign that says work hard and be nice to people Like. It's not always gonna be easy and you're gonna have to get up and it's gonna be tough and you're gonna have to get your hands dirty, but it's worth it.

The UnCommon Communicator: 39:56

But you're looking at the hands I hear you've mentioned that before too right, you're looking at the hands, you're looking at the feet, you're making that work better for them. So that improvement is a process that's building trust. To say, I see you and I'm gonna help you. You may not even see it, because you're right in the work right there. So continuous improvement at that level is building trust. But the other thing is self-developers as well too. For me and this is semi-unpopular is I have this theory of prove me wrong, and people don't like that. Like you should never prove the superintendent wrong. I might have proved me wrong, but here's the background to it is prove me wrong because then I only become better.

Jennifer Lacy : 40:39

Right, I learned yes.

The UnCommon Communicator: 40:41

I have. Now you've proven me wrong, but I have done nothing in doing that other than now made me more right. You've proven me wrong and now I'm more right because I'm taking your information. But that type of scenario, that space, that area that you've opened up really does bring in a certain level of trust because I'm willing to accept your feedback and apply it and then now we're all become better for it. It's just such a neat circle of growth. I think that comes through trust, through continuous improvement.

The UnCommon Communicator: 41:14

The one thing I do like about this book I'm a big summary person. They do summarize the behaviors which, if you summarize anything with me, if you're given a training, if I'm in a Gen Lacey training and you gave me some paper that summarized it, do you know what I'm gonna do? First I'm gonna go to the summary first. I'm gonna see. Okay, this is what she's gonna talk about. Let's see how much time gets wasted through all these other stories or where they beneficial some terrible that way. But they did have a summary and of course, I went to the summaries first. But this is the summary of this whole idea of getting better at this behavior, continuously improve, increase your capabilities, be a constant learner. Develop feedback systems, both formal and informal. Act on the feedback you receive. Thank people for feedback. Don't consider yourself above feedback. Don't assume today's knowledge and skills will be sufficient for tomorrow's challenges, and you have a saying for that.

Jennifer Lacy : 42:11

What are you talking about?

The UnCommon Communicator: 42:14

So you have a saying that and it escapes me. That's why I was hoping that it would connect. But it has something to do with what got me here.

Jennifer Lacy : 42:24

Well, get me there. Yeah, 100% it won't if we live in a space of like, we've reached where we're supposed to go. We're done like. We're done Like. You'll have a moment in the glory, you'll have a moment of success, and then you're going to start right back at the bottom.

The UnCommon Communicator: 42:45

Yeah, and that's exactly what they said here. Don't assume today's knowledge and skills will be sufficient for tomorrow's challenges. I like the way you word it better, because it's more concise and it really nails it, which is what got you here won't get you there. It's the same thing. What I think was fascinating, though and this is why I wanted to kind of tie all this together at the end of our conversation is tie it into this book that you haven't read yet. Yeah me.

Jennifer Lacy : 43:06

Well, it's on my list. I told you I'm not going to get to my list.

The UnCommon Communicator: 43:09

Everything that I have read in this summary is all the things that you have talked about in the idea of building trust through continuous improvement, so I just thought that was a neat tie together in regards to that.

Jennifer Lacy : 43:19

So Jim, and I want to add one more, just based on your summary is a lot of times people don't give us feedback because they're worried about how we're going to respond. So we hit the part on how we need to respond if we're asking for feedback. But I also know I've got some people that I hold in high regard and anything they tell me I would receive it and I would realize that they care about me. And when I've asked them for something, they're like well, I don't want to share this with you because you may not like it, and I'm like oh, whoa, whoa, Like let's why, why would you not? Because of the verse.

Jennifer Lacy : 43:59

Some of it is like not rating things that tie to you directly. Some of them didn't rate them very high. I'm like well then, that's even better, Because now I know there's a gap on a specific project and that's something I can do to get better. But they know me. Yet, because it was tied directly to me, they were worried that it would be something that I wouldn't receive. Well, and so it's like we've got to make sure that communication is open both ways, not just when we ask for it, but setting the stage so that people are willing to give us something when it's not a fun conversation.

The UnCommon Communicator: 44:40

Yeah, and that takes a very deep level of trust but also skill. I think there's two of those involved in that. Because I'm not very good at that, I'll admit that right now, as I like bringing in the fluffy stuff. I want to encourage you to pump you up to where you're going, and there's times where I'm learning. I've got to be better at giving those type of criticisms or critiques or evaluations, because you want to hear it. I need to know that you want to hear it, because I'm in the same boat too. I don't get enough deep enough criticism because of my position and I think by nature we're not very good at it. A lot of people aren't, and all of these things don't help us improve.

Jennifer Lacy : 45:23

Well, because I think they're uncomfortable, like when you have to sit there and give feedback. That's kind of sticky and yucky, or when you're in a place where you know that the feedback you could be getting could be a little bit not great. It's an uncomfortable space and you could either make it as uncomfortable and awkward as it has been, and it will continue to be the way it is, or you can diffuse it and turn it and flip it upside down, and to me that's what I try to do. I try to build the relationships and have the conversations and push those things to where, when they know they're bringing me something, it's like, hey, jennifer, da, da, da, da, and then we keep moving and then I act on it and I make a change and they go. I need to give her more feedback, like that's what we've got to do.

The UnCommon Communicator: 46:17

Wow, that's great. So that's great. You build momentum to get more feedback. They want to give you feedback. Yes, fascinating. So, while we wrap things up, if you want people to get a hold of you, how do they get a hold of Ms Jennifer Lacey?

Jennifer Lacy : 46:34

The best way is LinkedIn, Like again, you can go to my specific page, Jennifer Lacey If you used to a search, you'd probably find me. And then also, if you go to no BS with Jen and Jess same way, like they're kind of out there on both platforms, that's the easiest way and then connect with me and I will be happy to help and support my sometimes to a detriment, just based on feedback I get Sometimes. But I will share and I will help support anything that anybody needs. If they want an example, If they want, hey, what about this? I have a thought. There's so much out there and we've lived in this place of protection and I don't want to share my secrets because someone else may be as good as me and I don't live in that world. So I am willing to share and connect and if somebody needs something, if I don't have the answer, I have people around me that do, so happy to help.

The UnCommon Communicator: 47:23

So much appreciated and I think what you're doing for the industry as well as I'm seeing others. It used to be, like you said, that we're very guarded, protecting our interests. You work for a general contractor that's probably double the size of the one that I work for and billions, but I've sat on some other superintendent committees with some folks through Adam Hoot's companies across the country that are sharing these improvements so we can improve our industry and make us better without that feeling of competition, Because we're all here to make work better, as I found, not easier.

Jennifer Lacy : 47:57

What's going to take all of us. James, your company is not going to get all the work, my company is not going to get all the work, and there are going to be trades that work on my jobs, that are going to go to your jobs and they're going to go to another place. And if we're looking at this as an industry issue and an industry solution, then when trades leave me and they go work for you, it's going to make your jobs better and it's like, well, we've got to look at this bigger than just an individual silo, like this is a network that when we make things, we make people better. Then they're going to go and do better things in other places, which makes our industry better.

The UnCommon Communicator: 48:33

Exactly, yep, and that makes us all better. Yes, all right. This is our time for the uncommon communicator moment. This is the time where, for the last hour or less that we've been chatting, I want to sum it up. How would you sum up our conversation? What's the one thing that people could leave with today from today's conversation?

Jennifer Lacy : 48:53

Well, I think the summary for me would be that the feedback and trust conversation I'm going to try to put it together is that you cannot dictate trust. And so what are you doing? What intentionally are you doing to create that environment and being able to walk into where someone will actually listen to what you have to say? And the trust feeds into the feedback. So don't make assumptions on trust or feedback, but you have to say it, and you not only have to say it, you have to do it. And so if they watch you and your actions don't match what you're asking them to do, then it's going to fail. So you've got to exhibit the things that you want and then it will come back to you. And so, for me, the trust you have to earn, but you also, based on your support, you can walk into a room and have it, but you have to feed into it to be able to let them know that you're the real deal.

The UnCommon Communicator: 49:57

So you can't dictate trust, you have to show it. Yes. You have to sum it all up yes. Well, that's all we've got for today.

Jennifer Lacy : 50:04

Awesome. Thank you all. Bye-bye, go for it.