Making work Fun Again with Amy Powell Episode 122

Confusion on a jobsite rarely starts with a bad intention. It starts with unclear communication, unspoken expectations, and leaders who don’t realize what they’re signaling. I sit down with Amy Powell, founder and CEO of Wellworks, to talk about the people skills that keep construction teams moving, especially when stress is high and timelines are tight. 

We dig into lean construction through a communication lens, from visual management boards to the deeper principle that surprised both of us: respect for people. Amy shares how her early “wordiest PowerPoints” failed, why she went back for a master’s in education and human resources, and what adult learning really looks like when you’re teaching crews and project teams who want tools they can use tomorrow. Her “salt the horse” idea is a simple way to build buy-in without forcing anyone to “care.” 

From there we get real about emotional intelligence in construction, burnout, negativity, and why “making construction fun again” is not cheesy, it’s strategic. Amy gives one immediate leadership move to improve jobsite communication: specific positive feedback, done sincerely, backed by strong nonverbal communication like tone, posture, and presence. We close with the biggest takeaway of all: invest in self-awareness, because it shapes how you listen, how you lead, and the culture your team feels every day. 

If this helped, subscribe so you don’t miss the next conversation, share it with a teammate, and leave a review so more builders and leaders can find the show.

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Transcript

Welcome And Meet Amy Powell

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to the Uncommon Communicator Podcast. I am your host, James Gable, and this is where we bring enlightenment to the topic of communication. Are you ready to take ownership of your conversations? Are you looking to possess the skills to navigate and facilitate conversations to a mutual understanding? Then grab your growth mindset and let's go. Welcome to the Uncommon Communicator Podcast. It is my especial privilege to have Amy Powell with me. Amy Powell is the founder and CEO of Wellworks, the company devoted to developing and delivering essential people skill programs, workshops, training, coaching, and consulting for professionals working in or partnering with the construction industry. Amy, welcome to the program.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Thank you, James. Thanks for having me today.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

I'm excited to be here. You know, I consider you a communication expert. I don't know if you would call yourself that. If you do that, you should, because everything that you do and that you've trained for has been in communicating to people. So I love that you have taken that on.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Thank you. And I communication expert is a challenging one. I don't know if there actually is such a thing as a communication expert considering the depths and the amount of people, right? Um, and the the different things, but I always aspiring to be that. I love communication. I love studying it, researching it, and then also helping other people and training people on it. So yes, communication is my passion. Um, but I may not be, I don't know if there is a communication expert really.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

I I think if you call yourself a communication expert, you're not. Is that is that the the the fun thing?

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Maybe we'll have to look into that one.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

I've had people call me that because I have a podcast called The Uncommon Communicator. And I'm like, I don't even have nearly any the degrees that you have uh to be able to call myself any. I'm just a you know, I'm a student of it for sure. And and and as are you as well. Yes. One thing I thought was really interesting, we had 277 mutual contact con uh contacts in LinkedIn. Uh I thought that was really good. A lot of them in Colorado, but even Texas and into the lean build uh environment. So I know you're you're uniquely tied to not only communication

Lean Thinking And Visual Communication

SPEAKER_02 2:15

but construction. Uh, but a lot with that, uh, what what is your take on uh being able um on connecting with the lean construction side of the world?

SPEAKER_00 2:25

You know what? It's interesting. I've always been fascinated with lean. And when I was a project manager, I remember specifically trying to get into the group and learn more about it. Um just the the you know, how how efficient everything was. And that's what my mindset was as to what lean was just efficiency and and how you place stuff in job boxes, right? And how you schedule a job. Um, when I wound up reaching out and and asking somebody, they're like, well, your whole company has to be lean. So it's not just a project. And so that I was immediately like, there's no way I'm gonna convince my company. We can't, we can't overhaul everything. So then I kind of gave up on it for a little while and still just went down my own path. But I've always still been fascinated and I've that's been debunked. People are like, no, you gotta start somewhere, right? There's certain things, yes, optimally the whole company would be lean. Um, but it's more of a learning. I still love absorbing and learning about lean, but now not as a project manager, right? I'm like, well, I can't put it on a project anymore, but still fascinated in in that process, um, and still completely ignorant to, you know, what is the people side of that? Um, I still always saw it as like, well, it's just how you schedule a job, it's where you place stuff on a job, but not the actual human component about it. So that's probably what draws me to the lean aspect is like this still mysterious, unknown, but very um interesting topic, especially within our industry.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Oh, yeah. And it's for me, what drew me in initially was the fact that it it there's so much visual communication that is used on the job sites, and we need that to communicate schedules, constraints. So a big pro or the big portion of the the tools that we use are visual communication boards. And that's I think that initially got me really almost interested into communication alone is being able to communicate, you know, the process to the team effectively. Uh, and that's where lean comes in for me as being such a great vehicle to communicate with the teams and to do it visually without, you know, I can say things three, four different ways, but I put it right it up on the board and it makes a complete, uh, completely different story. And then what I found uh later was really hard to absorb was the idea that it's it's about respect for people is the one of the core principles. And that when you realize that you've got this kind of you know apex point of respect for people, then you can see where everything kind of ties into all of the things, the practice we should we put in place in and specifically the communication.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

See, I love it. I see, there's again so much of that world that I don't know. So learning those different things, I'm like, man, I'm in a lot more alignment in this than I thought, but I love the concept and I'm I'm

From Project Manager To Trainer

SPEAKER_00 5:15

excited to just continue to learn more about that that realm.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

I love it. Now, you got your construction management degree back in like 2006. Yeah. 12 years later, you said, I'm gonna go back to school and I'm gonna earn a master's degree in education and in human resources. Tell me about that moment that you said, I want to pursue this.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yeah. Well, so I was actually asked by my executives if I could um create and run a training program because it always gets put on the back burner, right? It kept getting put on the back burner. Um, I knew the processes, I knew the systems, I knew the people very well within my organization. And so, and I'm I'm I love challenges. So I was like, well, yeah, I'll I'll try it out. I absolutely I'd love to do this. I do know this stuff. Um, I wound up making, I I probably have them somewhere, the wordiest PowerPoints of just like literally, I I probably should have written a book of like, this is how you do this process. And so I wrote it all out on the slides and then actually presented it to my colleagues, right? The project managers, engineers, and the superintendents. Um, and they had to come back to the training because they didn't learn anything from it. I wonder why, right? Yes, I could have blamed them. Um, but I was blaming myself of like, it's gonna be a better way. And so I am a learner, I am an explorer, I love learning. I always have to have something like a three-year periods of like, gosh, should I go get another master's? Should I do this? Um, but I searched for something specifically of how do I become a corporate trainer? How does training and adult education work? And um, the program at CSU wound up being exactly what I was looking for. I wasn't looking to be like an admin or an executive of an educational facility. I was looking at being in my industry, loved my industry, but needed to apply these different things. So that's really why I went through and I could have done it very quickly, but I specifically took only one class and course at a time to really draw it out and explore the depths of those different topics and then try them out within the industry. And it opened my eyes to the opportunities of like, well, duh, why aren't we doing it this way? Of course it works this way, right? Um, I was the only construction uh professional in my master's program. Everything else was different, different industries. But it was eye-opening, it was fantastic. I loved the process of learning all the different ways that we could be learning and how to get information throughout communication, right? Transferred. And so, yes, there's the learning aspect, but then of course it opens up the opportunity for communication as well. And actually, stress was my original target when I got in there of just like, why are we all stressed? How do we eliminate stress? How do we reduce stress? Right. Um, so that was my first kind of big question when I entered the master's programs to how do we help everybody with stress in our industry? Um, and then it really wound up boiling down to communication and leadership, which was causing most of our challenges and stress. And so it, you know, shot me in a trajectory towards communication and leadership from that component. Um, but yeah, that that is why I went and got my master's. It was really more of like, I want to grow, I want to know, I want to learn more. And then how do I transfer this to our industry and our and our colleagues?

SPEAKER_02 8:45

You might be how many people in your class went to school to learn?

SPEAKER_00 8:51

I know. Um, right? I know. Most people to try to get it done, like they're like, oh, I want the certificate, I want to, you know, whatever. There's a few, and especially when you get into education as a master's, okay. You've got other learners like, oh, this is fascinating. So there were a couple within the in that in that course for sure that were just like, oh, this is fun.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Well, and it was evident, and you can even see that in your description of your schooling in LinkedIn, where you truly went there to get something and leave to do something with it. And that's I I applaud you for doing that, but it really made me think of something else too. Like you, you you talk about being a learner, I'm a learner, I love learning things, and you know, I it's I seem to hang out with a lot of learners, and I've also found some that don't. Like, you know, what book you're reading? I'm like, I'm not reading, I don't have time to read a book, you know. So there's people learn different ways, right? But I I think for you know, I guess my big question is now that you and you live in that world, but you have a mission to bring and teach a topic that is hard to teach to a group that's hard to reach. I think those were even your words. Like, how do we bring this to the you know, to these

Salting The Horse To Spark Learning

SPEAKER_02 10:05

to these people who I guess how do you teach people how to want to learn?

SPEAKER_00 10:11

It's not it's not how to want to learn. So there was a fantastic statement. Um, it was actually an article that I got from the masters, and it has been so impactful in multiple realms of of my life and my career, right? It's the the age-old statement, right? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink, but you can salt the horse. So they still may not drink water, James, but it increases their likelihood of wanting the water when they get there. So if you can resonate with our colleagues, with with the industry of those pain points of like, and that also that they're listened to and understood, which is rare in in some of these instances in the learning and the training, right? They just they're there to deposit something and then get out and leave versus like, well, no, I understand the pain points. I've lived it, breathed it, bled it, sweat it, right? That's when they're like, Yes, I do want that. And I do feel that, right? Their immediate recent past or their soon-to-be upcoming future of like, I am going to encounter the encounter this challenge and I do want to know how to overcome it, then of course they want to learn. We we are we learn stuff every day, we learn stuff every moment of every day. We're absorbing in an amazing amount of information every moment of every day. And so if you just say, well, what's the source to where you get that information? That's the that's the learning and training component, and help them realize you're already learning. You don't have to read a book, you don't have to sit in a 60-minute webinar. It could be a conversation, it could be an observation, it could be doing it, right? It could be there's so many different ways of what learning is. It doesn't have to be going to get a master's, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:04

That's exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Yeah, you learn from your dog, you learn from your cat, you learn from your kids, you learn from your colleagues, you learn from everything every day. So just reimagining what what that is, James, that's that's what helps motivate them, even just in that aspect.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

I don't think YouTube has a master's program, but I might be pretty close to getting my master's in YouTube. Well, you said something though, that I I've never heard that kind of association. Everybody's heard that bring a you can't bring a horse to water and make them drink, but I've never heard about the salt idea. And I think you're on to something because you also have to be training on things that that will make them thirsty for more information, right? What good is it for them? And that's what salt does. Like salt says, Man, I need some water. Like you're gonna bring them some information and and provide it in a way that's gonna want and create that interest to uh go beyond that training because that's the whole thing. Like, you can dump a ton of information in in an hour, and sometimes people leave with nothing. You can give nothing with one good piece of information, and they left with more, right? It's just one of those uh things that happens in the magic, I think, of uh teaching and uh and presenting.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Well, and I've been there, right, with my wordy slides, and they went away with nothing. So yeah, been there, done it.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

So I was actually in a training on how to have effective meetings, and it was uh because we were changing the um format of some of our meeting structures, just the organization of them. So they're they're presenting on that, and then some stuff on how to have effective meetings. And at the end of it, there was the the literal the death of bullet points was about to hit us, and it's called best practices. Now I love best practices, and there was the first slide popped up. There was, I forget how many, there's a lot on it, maybe nine, ten best practices, and I'm like, no, those are pretty good. And then the second slide showed up of best practices, and then the third slide showed up, and we were into four slides, and I think it ended up being about four and a half slides of best practices at the end of a very lengthy meeting, and they were all good, they weren't organized. Uh, but uh I I appreciated the idea, but it actually lost the audience in its purpose of having an effective meeting that whole death by PowerPoints um blows. I have experienced it. I felt like well, the presenter in me is going, uh, you know, I'm just kind of looking at how they're doing it, how are people receiving it, and hit that first thing of bullet points. And I come like, wow, that's a lot. That's a lot of bullet points.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

You could probably see him writing, right? The first few. And then once the slides went on, people are like like that needed to be a handout, not not slides, right? Like, let me write this down for you and let you do with it what you want, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Let me get you into Go Box. Something. Yeah, print it for me. Something. Um, so you know, one of the statements we did talk a little bit about that is that you

Emotional Intelligence In Construction

SPEAKER_02 15:05

went into the master's program so you could design and deliver the hardest to teach skills to the hardest to reach uh team members. What do you think are the hardest to teach skills?

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Hardest to teach are those emotional intelligence. It's the the people skills, the the untouchables, the untangibles, right? The the ones that are extremely difficult to document when you're making progress, but they're there. And it's what makes us human and it's what drives our industry, right? It is the engine, the fuel to our entire industry. It's that humans run on on feelings and hormones. That's what we do. And our industry runs on humans. It does. So it's that's the hardest to teach. The the easiest to teach are those management, the management and the technical, because they're so tangible. You can see the results, they're quick results, quicker results, but they're also stored in different parts of our brain, right? And so they're they're they're up here, so they're easy to access. They're like, oh, quick, you know, oh, learn, I'm gonna store it right here, and then I can access it right here. Versus emotions are also stored in our heart, get our heart brain and our gut brain. And and the stuff that's stored in there in those brains and those neurons, they're not in words. So they're extremely difficult to teach, to, to uh review, to test, you know, and to to um put into words, yeah, and onto an Excel spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Yeah, yeah, there you go. And then quantify it, right? Because you got to have quantification for it.

unknown 16:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Do you so thinking about that? Like I'm currently working for a co-build construction, very EQ forward. That's one of our focuses, is is what you're talking about. But you see construction comp country companies all across the country. Are you seeing a movement towards where we are doing more of this? I want to truly believe that this is this is the movement that's gonna bring and support the next generation. Are you seeing that across the country?

SPEAKER_00 17:03

I am, but here's a caveat. I I provide a specific product, and so I think I attract the companies that want that product. So I see a lot, right? But that doesn't mean that there are a lot because the other people are not interested in in you know my services, so I don't see them, the ones that never reach out in contact. So I I think it's but I I more than I expected.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Um I was pleasantly surprised at the people who are like, no, we do want that and we do believe in that. And actually, look, we even have our own training program that provides a lot of this stuff, and we want you to just add on top of it. I was like, wow, fantastic. I'm I'm so glad that there's that that aspect out there. But um yes, I do, I do see that.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Good.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Yes. And actually, even the field, they're very receptive to emotional intelligence. They almost know it more than more than some of the office is like, well, no, we don't need that stuff. That's too squishy. They don't want that. This field's like, yes, please, this is this is our life, this is what we live in, right? Every day. Um, and so I do see a lot of of people wanting it from that aspect as well. That's that was a pleasant surprise as well. It's like, oh, fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Yeah, I love hearing that coming from the field and and coming from the younger generation, right? I think there's different expectations, and this generation is gonna be taking everything over in less time than we really think it's gonna be, uh, just because of of the age differential that that's out there. There's a lot of young people coming in. So if that's how they operate, they want to be heard, they want to have the ability to uh speak and communicate their ideas, their thoughts, and to be able to create a vehicle to do that requires some emotional intelligence. Because I'll I'll be honest, like what I grew up with was like, shut up, we'll tell you when you can talk, right? You you you know nothing right now, kid. And I don't think we even approach that on our jobs anymore because there's so many good ideas that are coming from um people who are allowed to be themselves, to be creative, you know, to have ideas, and also to your point of being emotionally intelligent enough to say that's you know not a bad idea, but we're not gonna do that. And that's that's part of having that emotional intelligence too. Because I I'll admit, I have lots of ideas, and they are not all good ideas, but I have lots of ideas, and I want to be heard, and I want to challenge, I want people to challenge that, and

Making Construction Fun Again

SPEAKER_02 19:30

I think this generation wants that as well.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah, most definitely.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

So you wrote a book called Making Construction Fun Again. Like who's or who said it wasn't fun before?

SPEAKER_00 19:44

A lot of people, a lot of people, right? I was shocked actually. Well, I wasn't shocked. Uh I have had multiple points in my career, it was not fun, right? And and you do, you I mean, it's just like life. It you have the ups and downs, it's not fun, you gotta make it fun, right? But I kept hearing it. Um and as a when I was younger, I heard it a lot, right? So this new wide-eyed, bright-eyed person, like, oh, this is cool, right? This is fun and everything else, and hearing some of my superintendents say, This just isn't fun anymore. You're like, What? Like, what's what am I missing here? Right, I just I was just writing our vibes. It's not like super fun, but it's you know, I get to work with people, they're gonna sign. And so hearing that, gosh, over been in the industry. Yeah, I graduated 20 years ago, but dived headfirst into internships and working on all my breaks, like two or three years before that, right? So been in the industry for 23 years or so of just you hear it over your career and you hear it at every level in different levels. When you get the opportunity to have those conversations where people are willing to open up and say that, you start to hear it, and you start to hear it as like a pain point, or but also something there's something deeper there. And so that was the biggest component of oh, yeah. There's so many people that say this just isn't fun anymore. But what does that mean?

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Yeah, yeah. That's uh, I mean, you're 100% right. Like it's it's not and they it's not fun for a lot of people, and you know, I was in a group of superintendents, it's really the was in the old dog group that I'm in, and I I made the comment like, we have the best job in the world, like as a superintendent. And even within this group of people who are very passionate about growing other people and sharing knowledge across, you know, uh company platforms. I mean, it's it's a really cool group. But even there, they're like, it I saw the the wheel spinning, like, what do you mean? Like it's the best. I mean, that's my approach to it. And if you're in that position that it's not the best job in the world, then why not? Like, what has brought you to the point where it's not? And there's plenty of things, and most of it is aligning around the idea. Of burnout. It's um not really having all the skills either to communicate those frustrations and then also build there's a whole bunch of factors in there, but I'm a firm believer that it starts with the one person, right? That one, hopefully you only have one person in your head. Um, that one person is where it starts with, and really deciding that you know I'm gonna I'm gonna make the best of this, I'm gonna have fun with it. And uh, I think it's such a great point. No, it's it's needed. Um, you know, I we talk about it on our jobs a lot. Like, let's let's make it fun. I ran into an uh a sheet metal worker who gave me, I didn't even feed it into him. He's like, he goes, Man, I love what I'm like, why are you so happy? Because I love what I do. I mean, I build stuff, and he he was just really passionate about how he built and who he built with, and on the teams that he was at, and that is such a rarity in uh within construction. And it was just such a light to see uh this person really enjoying what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Yeah, yeah. Well, and it's who you're around, right? I mean, we just kind of went over that, like you learn every moment of your life, right? So and I it was a fantastic quote at some point. It's like, you are what you read, you are what you listen to, you are what you watch. Like that's as you're absorbing all of these things, if you're not intentional about what you're surrounding yourself with, then then you become someone you don't know who you are, or or you become whoever you're hanging out with, right? And so if you just want to be a curmudgeon and and continue to to just complain, I'm trying to not curse, right? Not uh just complain with everybody and continue to just you know over beer or even at work, that's that's the path you're headed down. You gotta make sure that you you jump out of that and and be the light in some people's day, right? Um, and it's amazing what that attracts, even just being the light in people's day versus the hammer in the dark, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Well, and negativity, like I see that a lot from the even the superintendent side where you have to you you have to be the person to tell everybody that that is not gonna work. Yeah, and when you come at that light, and I I would I'm I think for me, and I'd I made that change, and it wasn't my whole career, like I made that change that you know, I need to look at uh that positive side of it. And there's a whole psychology in that which goes to EQ training as well, too, where I've seen people almost ruined by other like a journeyman and an apprentice because they got caught up in that negativity. Well, everything's all screwed up and all my drawings are messed up, and everything, you know, I don't have all the tools that I need. And they only look at the negative and the dark side of it, and it truly brings in that type of negativity. And that I see it in construction, but that's in every business that we're in. I mean, that's a human issue of looking at that level of negativity, uh, creating the outcomes that they, you know, pretty much created in their own head. And so I'm a big fan of bringing that positivity, which goes to um, I would say, so you talk a lot about leadership and bringing the fun back. Um, how do you bring the fun back to construction?

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Exactly. You just said it, right? You've got to bring it. It's gotta start with you. Um, behaviors are contagious. That is a scientific fact. Um, that behaviors are contagious. So if you are the curmudgeon, that is going to resonate throughout the job site or throughout the office. Um this job is is hard enough. Our career is hard enough. Why add that to it? Now, I'm not saying to be falsely overly positive. That's equally irritating.

unknown 25:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Like, no, you gotta be realistic. But but what can you do to help just be a place that people want to be at? Because sometimes and sadly, they would rather be at the job site than at home because of certain home life, right? And so, but also you see that, I'm sure, especially as a superintendent, James, like when you've got subcontractors working on different projects, do they go to somebody else's or do they go to yours? Yes, there can be the person who yells the loudest. That'll be very temporary. They're there for a while, but they are inherently gonna come to the job site and the environment that they want to be at more. So, what is that gonna do to your project? Yeah, it's gonna help your project. What is that gonna do to your company? It's gonna help your company. What's it gonna do to your client? It's gonna help your client, right? So it's it's starting with you. It it legitimately is you. You can either be rowing backwards or rowing forwards with the team. Which one are you doing? Right. And so it's it's it is your mindset, it's what you choose to see. That is your option. You can choose to see something as negative, or you can choose to see something as an opportunity, or some choose to see it as a challenge, or or a positive light, right? You that is completely your choice. That is nobody's choice of how you decide to see an environmental situation, right? Um, and then that's inherently what your life is going to become, and it's what you're gonna surround yourself with.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Yeah, I mean, you made a lot of great points too. Like the it goes kind of both ways, even like maybe home life is great and work is terrible. Like you don't want to take that home. And so those are you know all of the things that are wrapped up into oftentimes what people bring on to the job site. And it is uh, I love your uh take on the ownership because you really it really does start with you uh to be able to do that. The the book that I may never write, uh that um hopefully nobody steals the name, but it's one level up culture. And I truly believe, and this kind of goes to we're talking a little bit about the lean, like you can you can have your pocket of culture in people that are around you, but it's typically one level up. Like when I see when I see people show up on the job site, uh I see how that format operates. Yes. A lot of times we uh we know that the company is great and they operate great and they they give us our great proposals and there's other teams, but that one person is all we remember. So we know we have the ability to influence that one person. And so it's always just your one level up away from really ruining the the culture of your own uh organization uh and how how you represent and how you show up. And that's why it's really, really important to have that foreman training, to have the journeyman training. Like every person that shows up from your organization is a representative of that company. That's that level of culture, is what people see. And I that's why I love that you're out there, you're teaching those things to the people who really do bring the culture because I've I've seen plenty of uh you know the mission statements that you know people aren't doing, right? They they're not living the mission statement, or that it was it was done and written in good uh with good intentions, but there's gonna be pockets that are not not absorbing observing it as well, too. So um you see that pocket. And then and I've been and I've seen this where you know you might be the only person in that organization that thinks that way, and you have enough influence to be able to change those around you, that's what's gonna bring the change to construction and to your organization, really.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

It's amazing the amount of influence that anybody, anybody on the job site has. Yes, the ones who are in those leadership roles, either inherent or titled, you know, um, have slightly more depending on what people are looking for. But but it's the the the temp laborer sweeping the job site, his opportunity to turn the the behavior or the mood around in that on that job site is just as much. Yeah, it's it's pretty dang amazing. And that's through words, through communication, not even through I shouldn't say words, because communication is much more than words, it's even just like body language and that nonverbal communication.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Yeah, no, you're you're right. Like I shout out to Susie. Like Susie worked for a blue uh temp service. Uh, she is probably one of the best humans I've ever seen on a job site. Like she is such the light of the world when she showed up, do whatever you want, uh, no problem, smile, upward, you know, inflecting in the voice, and just she changed the the people around her by being there as the laborer, not even in direct employee temp labor. And people have that ability. But I wanted to tag in though, too, because there is inherent responsibility in leadership. Uh, you know, I've I've had recently I've had some leadership discussions with some uh new people joining the organization, and and you know, you have it, uh you have it title-wise. Like you you're gonna come in and you're gonna carry a certain level, but you have the ability to influence from so that's from a from another level. So I was talking about influence, but there is this there is a responsibility, and we tell this to all our superintendents like how that job site is represented is you. Like, if everything is all effed up, because I've heard those words before, and and then I'm like, wait a minute, like you are directly responsible for how screwed up things are. And if you're not, then you're missing the picture of what your role and responsibility brings to that.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

As a project manager, I had front row seats, right? To my superintendents and and how projects went. Um, I'm I'm the second, you know, I'm the helper to the superintendent as a project manager. Every time I would walk on that job site, I was there to help them, you know, but also I got to observe. And I worked on multiple projects. So I would work with two to three superintendents at once. And you can very easily see the difference. And you get to see what subcontractors see too. The moment they step on that job site before they even meet the superintendent, they know how that job is going to be run based on how it looks, based on how everybody's interacting or participating on that job site. That is communication. Is that being transferred? What's being transferred? And then that sets up their mindset for the rest of the job as well. Um, but yeah, oh, it's massive with the superintendent. That's what I try to tell them is you do have, you know, again, everybody has that influence, but the leader just inherently within um human components, it's just like the hierarchy. We're kind of a hierarchy being. Um, they have a massive amount of influence. I I try to tell them, I don't think you realize how much impact you can have. If you can imagine the amount of people that are on a job site, you will have more impact on people than I will in my lifetime, that teachers will, that doctors will, that that that mentors will, right? You use that, use it correctly because your opportunity to make an impact in this world, this community, on this job site is massive and it's important and it's critical.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Yeah, man. And that's so the one level up from that, I had a boss that he would show up on the job site and he kind of had that grumpy cat face, and he didn't talk to anybody, kind of walked on through and went into the trailer, and then all the crew was like, What's going on?

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Like, is everything okay?

SPEAKER_02 33:26

And I had a discussion with them, and it was more about awareness because sometimes even the higher up you wear and can carry more authority with just a look in your eye. Yes, and and so he said, No, I I didn't want to interrupt their work because everybody's working so hard. And he goes, I guess I said, Is everything okay? I actually asked, I said, Is everything okay? Everybody's asking. He goes, No, it's fine. And then I told him, Next time, please stop them. I mean, you're talking 30 seconds of saying, Hello, how's it going? Pat on the back. Yeah. So the next time, because I didn't think he was up every week or every other week, came up completely different response from the team. And that was from a level of leadership of just uh saying hi and shaking hands and smiling, uh, and knowing people's names, like those are important things when you get high even higher up in those levels to be able to do that. I agree with you, superintendent. Like you're interacting with these guys all the time. But that guy, when he comes in with his fancy shoes and his white shirt, um, that has as much authority

Positive Feedback And Nonverbal Signals

SPEAKER_02 34:25

uh of the culture of the company as well, too. And it's amazing what you can do with just you know a look and a smile.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Yes, yes, very much so.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

So I got a question, like, what's one thing leaders could do immediately? This might be a tough challenge. I'm looking for one thing. What could somebody do immediately to better foster communication uh with their teams?

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Better foster communication with their teams? I was gonna say one thing, one thing leader you you actually just mentioned it is is positive feedback. Is that um that is the most underutilized tool in our industry? The whole no news is good news is crap and it's um neuroscientifically debunked that doesn't work. So um, and so literally just it doesn't have to be a 40-minute positive ravering review, again, or even false positive. Some some of us are just kind of curmudgeons, and it's really hard to give positive feedback. But you know what is positive feedback? Like, hey, great job yesterday. That's positive feedback or a smile and a head nod. That is positive feedback too, right? It can be your own flair, your own style on it, but giving positive feedback, nonverbally or verbally, that helps people realize that they whatever behavior they're doing to continue that. So you use positive feedback to continue a behavior, you use negative feedback to stop it. Right? If all they get is negative feedback, guess what? That's the brakes everywhere. There's no gas pedal. And if you don't give positive feedback, that's like taking your foot off the gas, you'll kind of roll to a stop, but you're still not going anywhere. So you gotta use that positive, that positive feedback. I mean, it's it's as simple as that, James. And it's that, and and also just recognizing, especially in construction, most of our communication is nonverbal, more than verbal.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

So you don't have to have the right words in order to say something. It's I mean, what is the right word? Because words mean so many different things to so many different people because there's different languages in itself, right? Um but the nonverbal component, just even open communication or open body language versus closed, that very small change can have a massive impact on your entire environment of your of your job type. So don't think of nonverbal as just body language. It's your tone, it's your cadence, it's what you wear, it's how you walk into a room, it's where you sit at a meeting, um, it's how you sit at a meeting. Um, if we you know, all of these different components that and especially in construction, we go off of nonverbal and we're really good at that instinctually, more than we do even verbal. Yeah, on the job site, right? In the office, we're we're all about verbal, but like females, this is important, but but specifically, like when you're walking on the job site and you're communicating with so many different people from different backgrounds, from different I mean, the words mean so many different things, but nonverbal is in a human instinct. We pick that up, and that will um override anything that you will say. So the nonverbal component, just do not discount that, but just recognize how you're showing up nonverbally, and that starts with your mindset.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

I will say this I know plenty of guys that have more words than I've ever known in my life, so there's a they're out there as well. I don't uh categorize them and any separation. I have seen both right.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Well, but but do those words mean anything if the interlocutor is the person you're talking to doesn't know what they mean. No, they don't mean anything, they don't, right? And I love words, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

I obviously uh we're both there, but I definitely uh there's a lack of self-awareness with some people that uh any and it could be any type of person, uh, red, yellow, blue, purple, it doesn't matter. There, if there's no lack of awareness, then there's gonna be a problem. So I like that. I asked for one thing, you gave one thing, which was to you know provide feedback and then also bring in, you know, you can do feedback and do it uh verbally and non-verbally, especially. And what I like is that's something that uh just takes reps. That's something somebody could do today and purposeful. And you have to, if it's not in one of your habits, then you have to practice to do that. And that's something somebody could leave here today to say, I'm gonna work on this thing. Uh I'm a big uh fan of saying, like, do it all day, like pick a day and make yourself make a note, do it all day long to build that habit. Like, one thing I'm uh I'm I'm not really good at is just saying like just compliments. I don't I I it maybe because I don't necessarily like them, but I don't give them out a lot. Uh and so I purposed one day, uh, because I I forget what I'd heard in the I wanted to find something, hey, it's a nice shirt. Um, you know, just worked on that and what a different response you get from people when you do that. And they were some because I I didn't want it to be insincere, so I really struggled with it, but I practiced it and I got better at it. And that's the whole thing is put the reps in. That's something you gave everybody something that could put some reps in uh right now is working on what you just shared with them. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Yeah, well, and it it's hard too, James, right? Because it's like, well, the the participation award thing right now, like I have to give everybody a no, do not. I I do not condone that actually. I wouldn't recommend against that because I do feel like it doesn't mean as much. But if you see somebody doing something right, yeah, that's that's who you want to give the positive feedback to, whether it was how they reacted to something or how they're installing something or how they're treating their crews, whatever that is, it's that recognition and just saying, hey, fantastic job, exactly what you just did right there. Thank you. That's it. Right, just just even one a day, five a day, whatever. But find the right people that you want those behaviors to continue and give those versus just a blanket, like you said, you say it to everybody, then it doesn't really mean you know everyone's a teacher's pet because you know nobody likes the teacher's pet.

unknown 41:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

Right. So that that one's an important just caveat there is like, yeah, the participation award versus like, no, give it to somebody that actually is doing a behavior that you would like to continue. That's that's making an impact on that job site on the project with that team.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

Yeah, love that recognition. That's probably a whole nother uh episode we could do because I think that is really, really important in what drives uh everybody. Like it's it's it's important in this generation now. I don't even think it's a buzzword, it's super important. It's almost needs to happen because when it doesn't,

Self-Awareness Plus How To Connect

SPEAKER_02 41:35

then you're seeing now the negative effects uh of that. But before we roll into our last two questions, how can the uncommon communicator uh you know what? Everybody has like a nation or a tribe. I've never never done that. Like, how can the listeners? I guess the uncommon communicator listeners get a hold of you.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Oh, LinkedIn's probably the best way to to to get a hold of me, whether either it's messaging or connecting. I think, gosh, isn't it like um you're only three connections away from Kevin Bacon or something? Is it wasn't there? So I think that everybody should be able to connect with me. I I've I'm connected with enough folks, especially within the industry. Um, but reaching out that way would be the best way. I do have my website, um livingwellworks.org. Um, and that has, gosh, it actually has a lot of free resources on there. It has has my my information, but more importantly, it's got free resources either on training, um, it's got articles on different components, the soft skills, it has tools, um, just information uh to to kind of follow and share out if you think it's interesting. But LinkedIn would be absolutely the best way to find me and and get a hold of me.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

Great. We'll put both links in the show notes. Everybody does down below. I don't know where they're at or if they're uh in there somewhere. Uh we'll put those in the show notes. And then we'll just kind of wrap up with I got two questions. Uh the first question is what does the world get wrong about Amy Powell?

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Oh boy. Um that's an interesting question. That I'm a communication expert.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

A good one.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

I mean, it's uh what is an expert, really, right? And I especially as a learner, I kind of see as like I can never stop learning. And I almost I I have like this pedestal for experts of like, oh my gosh, they know everything. Like they know everything, but I don't know everything. But I'm I'm I'd love to learn it and I love to, I've definitely been working in it long enough to where um I'm I'm a senior in it, but but uh but not an not an expert, right? Especially with communication, it always takes two people, and that other person has their own experiences, background, words, languages, right? And so what's what's to say? You're an expert. Um, so just recognizing, yeah, I'm I'm probably not an expert in it. But if you've got questions about it, I'm happy to go and search for it, or I might have an answer to it.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

No, that's that's a great answer. And I think that that fits for a lot of people, especially people that are learners, don't want to think of themselves as experts. Uh, but on the other side of that, I will challenge too that a lot of people are more expert at things than they think they are because uh they you know they haven't uh we all know because uh everybody the guy who knows the person who knows they're an expert, um you know it's we we get it, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

Very true, very true.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

No, but I appreciate that about you as uh um you know recognizing that. So that's a that's a great answer for that one. And then just the last question we've been talking for 40 minutes or so. What's one thing? You know how it is. So you sat in a training for like six weeks, and we're gonna walk away with uh, you know, you hope everybody leaves with a binder of notes, but if you could leave uh the the audience with one thing from today's conversation, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 45:08

I think it would be um more than anything else focus, invest in yourself. Um invest in yourself, but then also invest in self-awareness. I don't think it that can ever be a master of that, but my goodness, that is the foundation to how you communicate, how you show up, how you listen, um, how you're impacting a team. Um, I think there was a a stat at some point. It's like um like 90% of people feel that they're self-aware, but really 10 to 15 percent actually are. And it was a pretty massive study from different folks. And so, and and it's amazing how that impacts your communication and again how your entire team is acting, reacting, behaving, right? The environment that you're in. It's a massive component. Well, everybody wants to focus on conflict and and influence and all of this stuff, but it all starts with self-awareness and that emotional intelligence pillar aspect. Who are you? The good, the bad, and the ugly. It is not fun nor easy to become self-aware. Man, is it critical? Critical. That'd be the one thing. Like if you're looking up stuff to to to learn, study, research, read about podcasts, learn how to become more self-aware.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Yeah, I loved it. You nailed it because I mean everything that I've read in regards to all of that starts it, everything starts there. And so if you can start there, do well there, then everything else can come into play. Well, thank you so much, Amy. I appreciate our time together. We probably got about another 10 episodes uh left. Uh, but I appreciate your time, and that's all we've got for this

Final Takeaways And Share Request

SPEAKER_02 47:02

week. See you bye.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

Thank you, everyone.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

Congratulations. You made it all the way to the end. You're officially a one percenter. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Uncommon Communicator with me, your host, James Gable. Make sure you like and share this episode. This helps spread the message of communication to the world. Check out our website, the Uncommon Communicator, for more and connect with me on LinkedIn to keep building those communication skills.