The Uncommon Communicator

E123 - Wha's Your And With John Garrett

• James Gable • Season 4 • Episode 123

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If people only know you by your job title, you’re leaving trust, connection, and opportunity on the table. We sit down with keynote speaker, author, and podcast host John Garrett to unpack the idea behind “What’s Your And?” and why the most memorable part of you at work is often what you do outside of work. John shares the moment that sparked the movement, when a former colleague remembered him for doing comedy at night not for his Big Four CPA credentials. 

From there, we get practical about workplace communication and workplace culture. We talk about how behavioral psychology shapes buying decisions and why trust lets you stand out in a crowded market. John breaks down what healthy vulnerability looks like (without oversharing), how leaders can create genuine human connection inside teams, and why employee retention improves when we treat people as whole humans. We also dig into culture-building mechanics like consistent onboarding, leading indicators for employee experience, and recognition that actually reflects what someone cares about. 

We challenge the popular excuse of “change fatigue” and call it what it often is: a leadership and clarity problem. If people believe in the future you’re painting, they’ll walk through hard change with you. We close with actionable ideas around career path conversations, development without ego, work-rest rhythms, and even how “unlimited PTO” fails when no one feels safe to use it. 

Subscribe for more conversations on communication skills, share this episode with a leader who needs it, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

You can find all you need about John at his website: https://www.thejohngarrett.com/


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Welcome And Conversation Ownership

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to the Uncommon Communicator Podcast. I am your host, James Gable. And this is where we bring enlightenment to the topic of communication. Are you ready to take ownership of your conversations? Are you looking to possess the skills to navigate and facilitate conversations to a mutual understanding? Then grab your growth mindset and let's go. Welcome to the Uncommon Communicator Podcast. It is my pleasure today to have Mr. John Garrett. John is the What's Your And leadership and cultural keynote speaker who's also an author and a podcast host.

SPEAKER_01

John, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks so much, James. I'm excited to be here. Uncommon communicator. I mean, let's do this. This is great. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't do we tell the audience now we met over lasagna. I don't know. We had a mutual friend uh that led us to that, which I think he threw my name out in your podcast. I was the Yoda of uh barbecuing in his podcast. So yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, Rick Goodmay, really great guy. So uh absolutely so fun to hit record on our conversation this time instead of just letting it go off into the ether like before.

SPEAKER_00

So yes.

Rapid Fire And Communication Preferences

SPEAKER_00

So one thing you do, which I absolutely love, is that you start with rapid fire questions so the audience can get to know you better. I took a little bit of a turn on it. So I've got some rapid fire questions for you. Are you ready? Yeah, let's do this. I'm in the hot seat.

SPEAKER_01

Let me sit up. Okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's what's your favorite old school comedian?

SPEAKER_01

Favorite old school comedian. I mean, uh, probably I don't know. Let's go Bob Newhart, maybe. Uh yeah, and I mean his stand-up, but also his shows uh were also fantastic. That's a great choice. Uh yeah, yeah. So I'll say that he's pretty old school.

SPEAKER_00

I'd say yeah, he asked people phone talking to himself, right? That was one of my exactly, exactly. Love that. Uh cake or pie?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that oh wow, that's a tough one. Uh yeah, normally it like if I'm not being picky, it's gonna be cake. Like all cake is good. Uh, but if it's pumpkin pie, then that might bounce over all cake. So pumpkin pie, especially like uh, you know, I I just grew up, my dad was a huge pumpkin pie aficionado. Um, like it was the the Libby's recipe right on the back of the can. So uh but but but now we've we've tweaked it some and my wife has this amazing recipe. So uh pumpkin pie. I'm gonna have to jump over, but but otherwise, cake in general, yeah. Okay, always good.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, that's a great choice. Great choice. Yeah, I I love pumpkin pie as well, but it's just it's the conveyor of the whipped cream for me. I got it, I can't just put it there.

SPEAKER_01

You go, yeah, exactly. And it's not weird, it's like, yeah, of course you have cream on it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it was weird eating just the whipped cream plate, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and you're like, Oh, I put pumpkin pie under it. Now I'm normal. Okay, like let's do this. There you go.

SPEAKER_00

All right, what is your least favorite color? Not brown.

SPEAKER_01

Oh wow, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm gonna go with like uh like a like a crimson red, uh like USC red, um, I guess uh specifically. So uh yeah, just my college football uh uh fandom.

SPEAKER_00

Uh so yeah, so I would say that yeah, I did surprise you didn't pick a Notre Dame color. Well, you said least favorite, right? Oh, I did. No, you're oh yeah, okay. All right, well, no, I'm just making sure you're no, you're right. And I did that on purpose because uh I you know I added that not brown because what's the least favorite color of everyone you've ever and uh yeah, I mean on my podcast, yeah, it's always brown.

SPEAKER_01

Uh whenever I asked for least favorite color, it's almost yeah, I'd say 90-95% uh say brown or or like a like a a baby poop green or like some kind of yeah, where you're just like, oh yeah, that you didn't you didn't know they were that horrible, huh? That is a horrible color. It is, and it's a color, and we all saw it in our brains just now.

SPEAKER_00

Like it's yeah, yeah, and then I guess yeah, you throw in there USC uh red, that totally makes sense very nice.

SPEAKER_02

You know what that is, so yeah, oh I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

All right, do you prefer jigsaw puzzles or the jigsaw movies?

SPEAKER_01

And I don't know what jigsaw movies are, so I guess what is that?

SPEAKER_00

It's those the horror movies. It's a guy jigsaw, and he would put them all in we had to go through this maze of rooms. Do you like horror movies? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So no jigsaw puzzles. There you go. Uh jigsaw puzzles. Yeah, done, done, done. Wow, yeah. That was uh there you go. I'm not gonna scream out loud while I'm doing a jigsaw puzzle.

SPEAKER_00

So uh we'll pick that one. Yeah, yeah. Uh in and out or Freddy's.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's a good one. Uh, you know, I'm gonna go Freddy's because they have this brownie ice cream dessert thing. Uh, I don't know. I really don't know the burgers and the fries at Freddy's, to be honest. Okay, um, so yeah, I would go that just because their desserts are a little bit of a step up from just uh milkshake. Yeah, uh, so I'm gonna I'm gonna say Freddy's just because of their dessert menu.

SPEAKER_00

Uh great choice. You know, I chose cake or pie because I knew you were an ice cream guy. Uh somehow I knew it wasn't gonna fast.

SPEAKER_01

Oh no, absolutely. And and yeah, and it's like and uh and they both work with ice cream too. Uh yeah, no, it's uh I'm clearly a dessert guy, uh for sure.

SPEAKER_00

Do you prefer texting or do you prefer picking up the phone?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you know, um, if it's if I have to send a second text, I'm gonna call you. So like if I send a text and then you reply back, and then I have to send a second one, then I'm I'm just gonna pick up the phone because this is gonna go back and forth for 20, 30 minutes and it could take two minutes. So I'm just gonna pick up the phone and call you and just knock this out. But otherwise, like if it's just a one-off thing or it's a hey, I'm on the way home or whatever, text. Uh, but otherwise, if it's going back and forth too much, and by too much I mean twice, um, then I'm just gonna call you just and get it done. And then that's that's just my communication style. And uh maybe it is uncommon these days, but it gets to the point pretty fast, and you don't misinterpret the tone, you don't misinterpret sarcasm, you don't misinterpret an auto-correct that wasn't the correct auto-correct uh type of thing. So uh yeah, so that's that's my style.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. Yeah, that's a great choice. Uh yeah, don't yeah. Well, actually, the next question is auto-correct or leave it as is.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you know, autocorrect is uh a little too smart for itself sometimes, and that's not what I meant. That's not what I meant. Uh, and then now I have to back up and do it. I I think just leave it, leave it. Like it's close enough. You knew what I meant, and uh who cares, you know. Like, I mean, honestly, like come on, like you know, like you you got it, you know. I mean, now if it's a a basic word and you misspelled it and it's not close, then I'll be like, Oh, well, you know, we might not be able to be friends, I'm not sure. But uh uh, but or I want to play Scrabble against you because I'm gonna win. Um, but uh, but yeah, and normally just leave it as it is. I mean, come on, yeah, we're we're close enough. Yeah, okay. Sometimes I'm sure it's occurred. What's that? Communication occurred, you know. Like I meant to say this, you understood what I meant to say. Who cares? You know, like I mean, yeah, I got other stuff to worry about.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't uh sometimes it chooses things I don't think my mind was thinking at the time. They're not nice stuff, but anyways, yeah. Uh PowerPoint, do you use PowerPoint or Canva? PowerPoint.

SPEAKER_01

Uh yeah, I didn't even know that Canva could do uh I guess presentations or what have you. So yeah, so I yeah, I'm I'm just pretty old school, but I also don't do a lot of fancy bells and whistles because I'm there, so I want you looking at me. Even in my PowerPoint, I'll have blank slides where I just put the logo of the client because I don't want you looking at the screens, I want you looking at me for this part, yeah, and really most of it. So uh yeah, so PowerPoint.

SPEAKER_00

That's a great presentation skill. Yeah, I think um I was surprised. I've ran into a few people that run Canva, then send it to me. Like, I don't know what to do with this. Uh yeah, right, yeah, I didn't even know Mac, right? It's like the same thing, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, or what Prezi or all those things, and it looks great, but you know, then it's distracting from me live right here. You know, and I want I want me to be the show, not the slides. Um, otherwise you'll just watch a video, you know, like you know, like a substitute teacher in high school. Just wheel in the cart and let's watch the video. Like there we go. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, right. Yeah, let's go. Well, last question I've always wondered like what's your walk on music? Like, because I know you do a lot of presentation.

SPEAKER_01

Like 182, all the small things, bam, just like them, huh? Oh, yeah, yeah. It's been since like stand-up comedy days and everything because it's just a great intro, and it's all just uh you know, just guitar for the first 30-40 seconds, and it just hits it hard from the top, and everybody knows the song, and uh I'm on stage by then. So yeah, it's great. There's no editing involved, yeah. All the small things, blink 182.

SPEAKER_00

So you're making them rich by playing it, are you?

SPEAKER_01

Uh, I don't think they get any of that. Uh and they're okay with it. Um, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's um a license is that the venues pay to all the royalties. Um, so yeah, so but none goes specific, I don't think, or I don't know how they cut that up, but yeah, they're doing all right.

SPEAKER_00

They're doing all right, they're doing okay.

SPEAKER_01

Those people are doing all right, yeah, those those dudes are doing okay. Yeah, especially now that they're back together, which is great. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So, yeah, yeah.

The Spark Behind What’s Your And

SPEAKER_00

Well, so you know, you wrote the book, What's Your End? There's a couple behind you. Um, love the book, love the podcast. I and the fact that you put them in like every week, you're you're putting in the reps on on your podcast, but you're spreading that message of you know, it's you're worth so much more than what we are at work, right? Yeah, so what tell me like there had to have been a point, like what was that moment when this kind of moment of enlightenment, when this idea came to you? Tell me about that moment.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, I mean, so the the seed of all of it came from when I uh so I was a big four CPA with Pricewaterhouse Coopers at a school, and then um 12 years after leaving my first PWC office, I had already left corporate, I had done stand-up full-time for about 10 years, and then um, and then kind of married corporate John with Comedy John because I had some near misses in the entertainment world and just kind of was like done with it. And so uh so yeah, so I uh I was at a conference and I was backstage and I was getting mic'd up, and the meeting professional comes up and says, Hey, do you know this guy named Mark Baumgartner? And I'm like, I don't know, I don't know that name. That's pretty unique name. You'd think it's a name that you would remember. Um, and uh, and so she's like, Oh, well, he knows you. He saw all the speakers and said, I know John Garrett, that's the guy who did comedy at night. And so I go out to speak, and of course, in the back of my mind, I'm like, How do you know me, man? Like, this is crazy. I don't know you, and and so uh, you know, I went back and looked on my LinkedIn, we were not connected and uh professionally, so I was like, I don't know who this dude is, and uh and yet he remembered me 12 years later as not as the guy who passed the CPA exam, or not as the guy who was hand selected to be on the largest financial services client that PwC had, which is a pretty big deal, uh, not for you know working a gazillion billable hours or whatever, nothing work related. He just remembered a hobby that I did for fun at night, you know. That's the guy who did comedy at night. And uh, you know, and so then I started to ask people, like, well, do you do you have a hobby? And people are like, Yeah. And I go, Well, do you does anyone at work now? And most of the times people are like, No, not really, because it has nothing to do with my work or no one's gonna care, or whatever lies we tell ourselves in our head. And so that's when that's really the seed that started it is you know, we all work way too hard and are way too good at our jobs to be forgettable. Yeah, and the part that people are gonna remember 12 years from today is not the work part. Um, it's the the human behind the job title. And so that's really what What's Your End is all about is you're an engineer and a ballroom dancer, you're an attorney and a volunteer at the dog shelter. Like, you know, what are those things you enjoy uh doing that light up your soul on a bigger, deeper level? Hobbies, passions, interests, and uh, and that's where you can create genuine human connection, which then turns into the greatest retention policy you could possibly have, is just having a genuine interest in the people around you, the humans. Yeah, so that's that's the seed that started what's your and um because you know, and then it and then it for a while it was a uh the green apple podcast. Because when I speak, I would show like you know, a green apple and a bin of red apples, and the green one's the one that stands out. That's the one you're gonna remember, and it's it's still an apple, it's just a different color apple, uh, you know, a different, slightly different style of apple. Um, but then I changed it to what's your end after talking to people and years of research and all this, and so that's really how it got to that. Um, so you know, because you'd rather talk about your outside of work pot hobby or passion than you would your at work stuff. Um, so you know, let's that's why it's what's your end. Like, I don't want to know your job, I'll get to that. I want to know who you are, like who's the human that happens to have that work.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. There's I think there's so much somewhere deep so much more deeper than that too. If you don't have an end, and I know there's a lot of people that don't work and that's it. And without having something else, I think it really does um, yeah. I mean, it affects the psyching at just such a deeper level as well.

SPEAKER_01

Uh yeah, well, yeah, because I mean there's a whole bunch of you's um basically, and you know, there's a there's a work you, and obviously don't abandon that. That's how you get paid and pay the bills and all that. Uh, there's a home you uh and don't abandon that. Uh, that's for sure. Your family, your kids, your spouse, whatever it is, partner. Um, but there's a you that's just you. And sadly, that you is always last, takes a back seat to work you for sure, because that's all ego, and takes a work back seat to family you because well, if I don't say my kids are my passion, then everyone's gonna think I'm a bad parent. And it's like, no, no, I already think you're a bad parent. You don't need to not answer that, you know, like it's all good. Um, yeah, but but you know, what's the you that's just you? The you that has nothing to do with work, it has nothing to do with your family, nothing to do with your kids, nothing to do with that. And that's the original you that you existed before any of that other stuff that you existed before you had a name, if you want to get really deep, you know, like what lights your soul up? Like, why do you even exist on earth? Um, and uh, you know, there's there's more to it, and it's not at the expense of the other two, it's just that work you is so high, and home you is so high, you just have to bring up the you you to be equal with those. It's not a teeter-totter where one goes up, one goes down. No, no, they're all up, except for right now, the third one's probably not. So it needs a hug and just give it a little boost, you know, let it come out to play once in a while. Once in a while, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't have to be every week or every month, but just you know, twice a year or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, I love that. I mean, that's such that's so much truth in that, and so much connection that comes with this. And I gotta I I got one spot from your book I want to read. You quote two of my favorite Nobel Prize winners. Oh I don't know any, I don't know very many of them.

SPEAKER_01

Kahneman and his uh and his partner, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and his partner, yeah, it's Kahneman and Tversky. So you quote them, but one of the things you know, they're cognitive psychologists, they found out that people trust their instincts and would prefer to choose an option that is certain rather than risky. And then the big quote is in other words, people would rather do business with someone

Trust Sells More Than Credentials

SPEAKER_00

they like and trust than someone they don't. What I love the research you put in here. What's what's some more detail you can add into that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, what's even crazier about it is like that means like you can charge more for a service that's inferior, and they know that and they're cool with it. So having that that relationship with clients where I'm a human being that happens to be good at this kind of work, but I'm a human being first, and letting them see that side of you and being just just a little bit vulnerable, not oversharing, not drama, not anything illegal or taboo, obviously. Like, you know, just this is these are the hobbies and passions, this is what lights me up. Yeah, um, and maybe it's those that that client is in that kind of niche, or you know, that it's it gives you a skill set that makes you better at your job, so then you're you're better at this kind of a thing, um, type of thing. Um, and so uh letting them see that side of you is great because maybe they also have a similar and, or at least they can see you most alive. Because when you're talking about your and you're the most alive you've ever been because it's it's your soul singing. And so, you know, like you can't not be just eyes are alert and your voice is energetic and everything's awesome. And talking about work sometimes is awesome, but sometimes it's not. Uh, but talking about your and is always awesome, even if you mountain bike and you wrecked your mountain bike, it's still an awesome story, like it's still great, you know, it's type two fun, but it's still fun, you know, like it's still great, you know, type of thing. And so, so yeah, so just you know, it definitely works with client relationships for sure. Um, you know, there was one organization that I was working with, and they had a uh a manager, it was a CPA firm that that loved to brew beer at home, and he was just frustrated with the kind of clients he was working with, and he's like, I think I'm just gonna quit, like I'm gonna go get a job in industry or whatever. And they said, Well, you know, what do you want to do? And he said, Well, I'd love to do work for microbreweries because that's what I love to do. And they said, All right, we'll give it a shot, let's see what happens. And they're the number one firm for microbreweries in Philadelphia, and good luck trying to steal one of his clients because he knows all the ins and outs of making beer because he does it at home and he and he gets to hang out with the coolest people he knows, and they happen to be called clients, but they're cool friends of his that do what he loved on a bigger scale. So, of course, it works that way, but but I think that happens a lot naturally, but I don't think it happens so much internally, and that's where a lot of my focus and a lot of my work is is on you know, colleagues and co-workers and getting to know them and what projects should you be putting them on. And, you know, instead of a Starbucks gift card as a thank you, here's a gift card to a music store, or a gift card to the pet store, or a gift card to whatever it is that's that's your and um, you know, so then it shows that I value you as a human being uh less as much as I value the person, you know, or the the the output. And if you value the human, you're gonna get the output. Um, no problem. And in this day and age, uh there's a huge talent shortage, there's not a client shortage. There, I don't know what happened, but clients are now, I don't know, they're they're coming out of the woodworks, and talent is not, and so that's why I'm like, well, you know, uh, if you take care of your people, you'll always have people to do the work. If you take care of your clients, you're not gonna have any people that are gonna do the work, and then you're not gonna be taking care of your clients at all. So, you know, that's why I focus internally mostly.

Building Retention Through Human Culture

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and so yeah, I'd love to hear more about like how you uh support uh companies and in putting making this into a culture.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, uh yeah. So I have a a short diagnostic, it's like three or four minutes, but it it really just pops the hood so then people can see uh where are we at on talent development, uh, you know, coaching and feedback, uh clarity and expectations, employee experience, and then retention discipline. And it's less on the actual numbers and more on what are the leading indicators? What are the things that you're the activities that you're doing that then lead to the lagging indicators, which are the numbers? Um, but if you're if you're just winging it, well, then that's that's not how it works. And if and if a if somebody starts during a very busy time of the year and their onboarding is a different experience than somebody that starts in a slow time of the year, that's not okay. Like it needs to be pretty consistent. Um, so there needs to be infrastructure there. There needs to be something in place that keeps it from being different experiences for different people. Or if you report to this vice president, it's a different experience than another vice president. President, then it's miserable. That shouldn't be the case. It should be pretty consistent across the board. Um, and so that's really a lot of the work of it is is you know, some of it's a little bit of baking what's your and into recruiting and onboarding and employee experience and even exit, but but it's mostly around like almost being a fractional chief culture officer, where it's it's co-creating with you to to create the the environment you really want to have. And then let's put in some scaffolding to make sure just a little bit, not overdone, but just a little bit to make sure that nothing slips through the cracks. And uh so that's why it's it's so crucial, and but it does really start with just seeing everyone as human beings that happen to have this job. Um, because I've I've found that like the more that we we try to connect over job titles, then that's when connection is lost. You know, when your identity is job titles and you look at everyone else's identity as job titles, there's no connection there. And so of course, people are gonna leave because they get a thousand dollars more. Well, what's the difference? You know, I mean, like who cares if I work here or there and I'm making more money? That's all. And but if you if you change the game to where it's a little bit money, but a pretty awesome place to be with leaders that care about you as a human, well, good luck trying to poach that talent.

SPEAKER_02

Right, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So there's like I'm I work for uh co-built construction, and culture is like one of the top things that we talk about as an organization. We work on grit resiliency. I mean, there's a whole lot of things that are wrapped around culture, is the optimum, and how does the rest of the work fit in, which it does as far as trust and all these other things that go along with it. But what I found, at least in construction, they're so unique in their approach to the idea of uh how they're approaching culture. But what I'm seeing and what I'm hearing, so I was gonna ask you, because you said you have a lot of clients like coming out of the wordworks. Are you seeing a movement where it truly like culture truly is becoming the draw to these organizations and they see it and they want more of it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, it's uh it's kind of interesting though, because it's what they want is people to stay. Um, that's what they want. And I think after COVID, they realize like, oh wait, like we didn't actually have a culture. Um, you know, that's why everybody left because well, you know, having an office that we all went to isn't a culture. Like that didn't actually that that's if that's the only glue that keeps you as a as a team, well, then that's that's very weak. Um, so that's why when COVID happened, then all of a sudden everyone's like, well, oh, I don't actually care. They don't care about me, I don't care about them. This what's the difference? I on the you know, the wallpaper of my laptop is a different company logo than the one I'm at now. Like, so what? Who cares? Whatever. Um, and so so really what at the end of the day, that's what they want is they want talent to stay in and succession planning and things like that. And then they're willing to finally be like, oh, wait, yeah, we don't really have a culture, or we need to work on that, or we need to uh or and so the thing that's frustrating though is like people don't always value like how important that is. Um, you know, and you know, when somebody walks out the door, I mean it's two to three times salary that just left. Yeah, I mean, that's how much it's going to cost to recruit someone new, train them up, get them back up to speed as to the same level of output that the person that left. And all that missing time is and and all that extra work is going to be piled on the other people that are in the department, and so they're gonna have to then work more. So you're gonna burn them out, maybe. And so it's just it's just a it's expensive, but people don't realize that because it's been, you know, the cost of doing business, it's just how it's been. Um, and so so it is a little bit frustrating where people say they want it, but they don't really deep down want it, or they'll come to me and they'll say things that are hilarious, like, oh, we have change fatigue on teams, and I'm like, those words that is wow. No, I have change fatigue fatigue, James. I do. I'm so sick and tired of hearing about change fatigue because you don't have change fatigue because what you have is is poor leadership that people don't believe in. Because if I believed in my leadership, I'll walk through coals, I'll walk through fire, like I don't care, like I'll go through all the change because I believed in this and I'm a part of this, and I'm gonna be part of the future of this. So, yeah, let's do all the change that makes this better. But when you don't paint that picture for people and they feel like they're just a cog and a machine that they're you're just using them, well, of course they're gonna not believe you and they're gonna be super skeptical and they're gonna not want to do change because now that's hard for them, and there's no reward, and it's not a financial reward, it's a it's a I'm a part of this a reward, you know. And so uh, so yeah, so I

Why Change Fatigue Is Leadership

SPEAKER_01

that's a thing. So if you're listening and you've used change fatigue and you think that's a reason, it's not an excuse, it's not an excuse. It's uh it's you, it's not your people, it's you.

SPEAKER_00

So there you go. Yeah, that's that that's so funny because the when I when I've heard it before too, I'm thinking, truly, you you're saying change fatigue because your way is now in place, so let's not change this way.

SPEAKER_01

Um we don't want to fatigue them, or I'm the one that's going to benefit from this, but they aren't. But so I want you to my ego says we have to do this change, but everyone else is like, Well, I don't see why we need to, and I don't believe that we need to, and you just want us to do it because you're gonna benefit from it, um, and we're not. Uh, we're just gonna end up doing more work, so you know, of course they don't want to do that, right? Um, and I wouldn't either.

SPEAKER_00

You know, the I was I mentioned I work for co-build. We we use the term a lot that we are uh building the plane while we're flying it, like so, but I mean culture being the biggest uh overall arching thing, but we I mean there's so much change that happens on sometimes within the week basis as we know as we're scaling to grow and we're really growing, like just the I think after 12 years, the culture is really and the relationships have really come to the point to where we're just starting to really just bloom and blossom. And but it goes back to that we are in this constant change cycle, so in that it's easy to have people you know fluid and familiar with and being ready to uh you know feel the change uh in there. So I'm gonna keep my ear out for the change fatigue, make sure I don't know it's always a leader that's that's lazy, always, and uh everyone listening, always telling. So you use hundred percent. So some of the time or one, uh what are you trying to say?

SPEAKER_01

I'm saying 100. And if it hurts a little bit to hear this, then it's you. I'm just telling you, like it's you, and so like really sit back and think about how did I paint this picture for everybody? How did I like there was a a CPA firm that I was just talking to last week, and they the the partners like, yeah, you know, we need CPAs to become the next leaders of the firm, they have to actually pass the exam. And so we give these incentives for people to pass the exam dollars, um, but you know, they try and try and then they can't, and it's and so, but but we we don't have that next wave of leaders because we don't have people that are able to pass the exam. And and so I said, Well, have you taken the three or four people that you see as the leaders of the firm to lunch and just told them, hey, I see you as one of the next leaders of this firm. Uh, do you want in on that? And if they do, then you say, Well, then you're gonna have to pass the exam. And how can I help you do that? Uh, because right now, offering them $3,000 to pass the CPA exam is a very, very different painting than I'm handing you the keys to the firm. I want you to be the leader of the firm in the future. And uh, you know, for that not to be the case, that you didn't even tell them that is crazy. And the guy's like, oh, that's really good. And I'm like, Wow, what? Like, I mean, like, there's no incentive to pass the exam. But now, if you're hey, I see you as the next managing partner here, yeah. Oh, well, now, now I have a reason. And also you're gonna help me figure this out and make space in my work and and all this to be able to pass, okay. Then yeah, um, that's a that's a very different narrative. So really think about that if you're a leader.

SPEAKER_00

You know, one thing you said too, I think is really, really important is having a path communicated because I've seen people leave. I've seen I've been in the organization where they're like, I'm out, like I'm quitting, but like, hey, you were gonna be the next whatever, right? I can name a couple of different people where we not once did anyone ever tell them that that they had it, that we saw it in them, and they didn't feel it, and they thought that work was slowing down. And we I don't think we communicate enough the career path for people, and I believe that it's driven out of fear because we're afraid to tell them, right? Uh, maybe ego will kick in, or or maybe it's not gonna work out, and it's just all the wrong reasons to not develop somebody into that role, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And and it's also just it's just lazy because it in a little bit of arrogance of like, well, how would they not want to be? Of course, they're

Career Paths, Ego, And Developing People

SPEAKER_01

they want to be me when they grow up, and it's like, well, maybe not. I mean, you know, so at least annually it's asking people, hey, what's your dream job? Yeah, like what do you want to do here? Like, and it doesn't have to be here, it could be somewhere else, and buckle up because it's odds are the answer is not gonna be be you, like it's gonna be something else, and but it's like, okay, cool. So let me help you get the skills to be able to then go and interview for that job, or let me introduce you to some people that have that job, so then you can be more educated and and and more aware of that. And and uh, but but it's just I mean, it's open, and that way, then they're gonna accidentally stay longer because you're helping them develop into the person that they want to be, and you also should want them to be the best version of them, and if that's with you, great, and if it's not with you, also great, because who wants a bunch of miserable people around? Like, yeah, and but there's so many leaders that are like, Well, I'd rather have a hundred people that are all miserable than you know, 40 people that are living their best life, and it's like, well, that's um, you know, like it's just uh because if you have a bunch of people that are living their best life and then they go on to another position, they're gonna tell their friends, like, I know I'm not there anymore, but you got to go there, man. This place is awesome. Yeah, and then at some point down their career, who knows? They boomerang back, you know, uh and they come back to the organization.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think it was Richard Richard Branson that said, I'll train them so they can go and work anywhere, I'll treat them so they'll want to stay. Something like that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, there you go. Yeah, yeah. That seems like a Richard Branching kind of a thing. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Sir, Sir Rich, sorry, sir, sir uh Richard Branson. Important.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_00

In case he's listening. Um he might be. I got some in the UK, so he's probably I don't even know where it's. There you go. Yeah, uh, somewhere probably. Yeah, somewhere in a yeah, in a beach, a picture of a beach somewhere. Yeah, yeah. But that's you know, those are all part of retention tactics as well, too, is really knowing, you know, who you're developing, how you develop them, uh, and being able to uh you know give them like a place for them to succeed that they could succeed anywhere. And I think you mentioned ego in there as well, too. I think what I've seen too, like limiting uh factors in hiring, is some people don't want to hire somebody smarter than than themselves, uh and or promote, you know, or get them to the point. And I've not I I feel like I've been in this spot a couple of times where I felt like I was really held back because I was fulfilling, I was good at that role. So instead of letting me be at the next level, people want to keep people at that role. And I think that comes back to being more of that human connectedness. Like if there was more of a connection to what you know was important, if if that individual wasn't cared about what I cared about, there would be a different conversation. That's exactly it.

SPEAKER_01

And as a leader, I mean, the greatest compliment you can have is to have all of the people that were below you now equal or above, you know, because you were a part of that that path for them and you showed them what good leadership is. Um, and then and then the whole organization is better, uh, you know, and and and that that definitely matters, and just caring about just having genuine interest in the people around you. You know, I love to have like clients that I work with, like leaders ask all of their people at least once a year, uh, what do you love to do at work? And how can I help you do more of that? And then what do you love to do outside of work and how do I help you do more of that? Um, you know, if if you love to go to concerts and you haven't been to a concert in three, four, five years, well, that's not good. Uh, you're not the best you that you can be at work. Uh, so let's get the calendar out and let's find out where what concerts you want to go to and let's put it on the calendar and let's make sure you go, um, type of a thing. And if if it becomes a work issue or whatever, we'll figure it out. Like we'll map it out, we'll delegate the task to give you the space to go do things that light you up. Clearly, it's not every day or every week, and you're still gonna get your work done, but it's I care about you as a human being, and that matters so so much.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. Now you talk about connection a lot, and this is something this is I'm

Stand-Up Lessons For Real Connection

SPEAKER_00

gonna tie it back to a little bit to to comedy. I'm a huge comedy fan. I do listen to uh, I don't know, probably can I can I name them? Um, I listen to uh Kill Tony, where they do where people come in and they give that one minute, right? That this is this these upcoming uh comics coming there. I just love comedy, but one thing is uh because I I I I fancy myself I think I'm funny. Funny has nothing to do with comedy. I found out like it's all about writing, right? You gotta be able to write, you gotta write funny, but it's about writing and connection. So I know that connecting with the audience is really important. I've just heard some feedback of some of the comedians that could really do that. But uh I feel like that's kind of what you bring to uh what you present and how you coach and how you keynote. Um, you you bring connections amongst co-workers, but is there some tricks that you have in bringing connection uh and kind of maybe speeding up connection?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, man, uh a lot of it was honed from doing stand-up. I've been on stage 2,400 times plus now. Um, and you know, when you're in front of an audience of strangers, uh they don't care about me. Um, get to it, uh, get to the laugh, get to the funny. Um, you know, like when you're with your friends, you can go off on a tangent or you can do some random story or whatever, and then get back to it. Or audiences do not go for that. The strangers are like, look, we paid money and we need to get some laughs in here, and uh that's what that's why we're here. And and so, you know, um, so I mean, I would just say that like when it comes to communicating, it's it's really just getting to the point, um, you know, and even say it up front and then tell the story after if you need to. Uh, but yeah, get to the point. Like, what are we doing here? Like, what's going on? Like, why are you talking to me? Like, what's the story here? Like, what is what is happening? Um, but also it's it's it's also checking in with the people and reading their faces, reading their body language, reading, are they going along with this? Are they rubbed the wrong way by this? Are they, you know, whatever? Um, are the is it the reaction that you were going for or not? Um, and then just checking in. Like, is this tracking? Is this does this make sense? Is this follow? Um, you know, is is this and and then you at least know that okay, they're along the ride with me. And also, too, uh despite my answer being crazy long here, no one likes monologues. Like, have it be a back and forth, ask a question back, you know, like, but as a guest of a podcast, that's not how this is built. Um, you know, like, but you know, in a normal conversation, I'd be like, what about you? Like, what's a you know, and then it's it's a back and forth, it's a dance. Um, and and so uh, so yeah, so definitely, you know, those are a couple of things that just come to come to the surface for me right away. Um, so I don't know, but yeah, what about you, James? Like, it's I love the host of it.

SPEAKER_00

You shut your mouth, you're on like I've had somebody ask me a question and I'm like, wait a minute. Um that's I mean, for me too. I mean, those are all great answers, and I think, and I was curious too, if your time in stand-up comedy, that's a lot of times on stage, it's putting reps in. I'm sure you you can develop that skill because uh as you were saying that, I was thinking that I've sat next to people, felt no connection. I've sat in a room of a thousand people and felt so connected with that person that was speaking, and there's just an incredible power from public speaking where you know, I know when I do uh a lot of speaking, you you make connections with certain individuals within the audience, it depends on the size of the group. I'll sometimes I'll hit eye contact with everyone. Uh, or if you it's there's something powerful about making eye contact in an audience where you're affecting like 10 people around it. I mean, I can't even, it's somewhere in the I guess I can use the quantum physics world where something's going on with that connection. So for me, there's something more than just um, you know, there you're it's something truly genuine, I think. And everything that you said is like there is making sure that you're present, uh, making sure that you're, you know, you're in it while you're there. Uh, I think all of those things really help bring connection. And I think what you're talking about and what's your end, like when you're when you're having communication or a conversation with somebody at work about what they're passionate about, those are making some kind of electrical connections with them. Um there was like we do a lot of uh Patrick Lincioni type of things with the with the work widget. We talk about it all the time. Like, what are you working in your genius? Like those are questions we ask every single week. And we also gauge how is your connectedness with your uh we asked this in a survey every week at our all hands. You know, how are you connecting with your coworkers? So we're looking at that. How is that changing? How's that gauging? And a lot of that is tied to those conversations that are outside of just the work conversation. So there's just so much value in that. We we had one person who so anyway, so she would run them through kind of their but we also do the Clifton strengths as well, too. And in the past, and she's our HR person, and in the past, she hasn't she hasn't got to every she didn't do all of them for a while, and she had a chance to do one with one with somebody, one of our you know, new hires, and she she found that just going through them and having that conversation about that, because that stuff's very um kind of personal in a way, right? So, whenever they even though they had really nothing in common, probably will never work together in you know, two completely different departments. When they walk into the break room at the all hands, they can kind of give a nod. There's this there was a connection that was made that is in some ways um you know hard to sever. So it's just so cool on that connected side and the stuff that I can keep me with uh having these conversations. So that's what you

Work Rest Rhythms And PTO That Works

SPEAKER_00

have to ask me a question.

SPEAKER_01

The connection is over them being human beings, it's not over their work, you know. Like two people that you know can operate an excavator don't have as strong of a connection as the HR person with the you know construction person, like that's a stronger connection than it is two people that have the same job. Um, I mean, because it's on a human level, it's deeper. And there was actually a study done at Johns Hopkins University probably about two years ago now, where they found that it only takes 40 seconds of genuine human interaction. 40 seconds. Um, and it's a greater sense of belonging, less anxiety, and that's what we all want is just to feel like we belong and feel valued for who we are as a human being, not just the work that we do. Wow, and so 40 seconds. And if you don't have that kind of time, then maybe being a leader is not for you. Um, you know, like you're the kind of person that microwaves your pop tark, you don't have time to put it in the coaster. But really, like that's that's crazy. Like, you know, come on, we got time.

SPEAKER_00

Like, you know, there was no no, there was somebody who was microwaving their quesadillas. This is recently, and I don't think we can ever let them get over that shame. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, microwave. Like you you couldn't eat a pan, like that. All that is is that that's a gooey tortilla and cheese. It's like microwaving a pop tart. Three minutes on a stovetop, like counting heating up the pan. It's 30 seconds in the micro. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, I don't have that kind of time. Maybe life isn't for you. Like, wow, how do you do this every day?

SPEAKER_00

Like, right. Why even eat?

SPEAKER_01

Stop eating because you're right, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, man. But it matters, it matters so so much. But but our priorities are upside down, and we're so busy doing, doing, doing that we forget to just be, you know, just be. And then you know, if you're being. Than and and really what what's your hand is is it's not a work-life balance thing, it's it's deeper and bigger than that. It's it's making you whole, it's making you a whole human. Oh, we get so it's almost like a trivial pursuit pie where you have one wedge for work and you got five other empty wedges, they're empty, right? And and fill them up and don't fill them up. It's not more work that fills those up, it's other things that fills those up. And so, you know, that you you're you're not a whole human, uh, you know, and it's that third you is really needs a hug. So just make some time for that.

SPEAKER_00

You know, we use the term rhythms of work and rest, uh, as opposed to the idea of work life balance. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's not about work life balance isn't I'm gonna have more time away from work. It's like, what are you doing during your day? Like we have a gym, uh, you know, I have a facility, go work out. Do you need to go for a take a walk? Do you got to pick your kids up? You know, do you those type of things are all part of that work together? Uh, and it's easy to do in a salary situation, but it's but that rhythms of work and rest are something that's a mindset that is not spoken about, I think, in corporate America uh as much as it should be.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. And and and also, too, there are places where they're like, Oh, well, we have unlimited PTO. And I'm like, Okay, well, that's great because just accounting-wise, you don't want to have that on your balance sheet and have to owe people money when they leave. That's really all that is. Well, it's wait. Um, I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, right. But if you have unlimited PTO, do you have a minimum? So that's great. Do you have unlimited PTO, but you make sure that people are taking it? So, you know, you have to take two five days sections a year. So you need to use your PTO, even though it's unlimited, you have to use it. And so if you're gonna have unlimited PTO, make sure people are using it, set the tone yourself, and then make sure that people are doing that, and they have to, um, you know, and and and so it's those kind of things where it's you know, help people help themselves because they're not going to on their own.

SPEAKER_00

No, and that's you know, it's uh I hope this gener, I think this generation gets it a little bit different. Uh, because I think they're they're taking that time to some degree. I hope so. Because I know my generation looks back, I mean I I can list you a half a dozen people who are proud of the fact that they get max like they're getting six weeks a year uh PTO, and they're at every year or every month they're losing accruing. Yeah, and they're proud, they're they're proud of that fact that they're doing that, and that's unfortunate for them, but it's unfortunate for their families as well. And it's it's a mindset that I think I hope is really uh beginning to change. I hope so.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, and it's unfortunate for their organization because they're not getting the best version of that person at work, you know. If it's all work all the time, anxiety's high, depression can be very high. Like if you if you get dealt a blow and that's your whole identity, well, then it's not good. Um, so yeah, uh absolutely it matters.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it sure does. So as we kind of wrap things up, uh, I got a couple of questions I'm

Where To Find John And One Takeaway

SPEAKER_00

gonna end with. How do how do the listeners get a hold of Mr. John Garrett?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, the easiest way is www.what's yourand.com. The podcast is there, the book is there, it's on audible as well, if in case you really love this voice. Um, so yeah, there's that. Uh, and it's won some awards, which has been pretty awesome. And Coach Lou Holtz wrote the forward uh as a Notre Dame alum myself. It was a huge honor for him to say he would. And uh yeah, so through there is you know the keynote and the coaching and the fractional chief culture officer work as well. So yeah, what's your and.com.

SPEAKER_00

Easy. Link LinkedIn, big on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, LinkedIn, absolutely. Posting a lot on there. Uh, and so uh Instagram starting to do a little bit more. Uh I've been a best kept secret for a little while, and so really uh I have some some people on my team now that are helping drag me out into the light and let let people know more about how important this is. And then what's great is the more that I get out there, the more positive feedback I get, and the more uh like overwhelmingly positive reactions, it's it's pretty awesome. And then you know, on occasion, there's you know, somebody that feels triggered, uh, and that means that I did my work. Um, because you know, if you didn't care, then you wouldn't care. But it you cared enough to where this this tripped something, you something tripped on you, and you know I'm right, but your ego won't let you admit it. So uh so then it's a it's a fun little conversation just to see what they're feeling and what's going on with them, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I hope this is I hope the tide is turning. So I think everything that you're bringing, I hope we're seeing that in a positive direction. So that's yeah, it was always there.

SPEAKER_01

We just had to remove the layer of playing professional, like an actor in a show. So if once we pull that layer back, it's it's there, it's it's been there for hundreds of years. It's just this facade, this suit of armor that we all put on to protect our our like little soft insides. Um, and then you pull that back, and then you realize, oh, I don't have to protect this.

SPEAKER_00

Like we're good. Yeah. So uh first question What does the world get wrong about John Garrett?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that uh they think I'm super extroverted, and I'm not at all. I'm super introverted. That they think I'm funny all the time. No, I'm not. Uh that uh, you know, that um, oh, he's just a comedian. Like it's just when he comes in and speaks, it's just gonna be funny. Um, my favorite is on the feedback forum where someone will say, like, oh, I thought I would laugh more at a keynote. Like, it's like you just laughed harder at a keynote than you ever have ever, I promise. And yet you thought you would laugh more. Like, I don't come to your job and be like, I thought you would be smarter. Um, you know, like it's like, you know, but but uh yeah, so I mean that it's okay to be multidimensional, like you know, you can be deep and funny and silly and smart, and you know, like you can be all the things, it's okay, it's okay to be good at a couple of things. So yeah, but those those for sure are are things that get me. And I'm also almost six three, so like oh you're you're I thought you're a lot taller than I thought. And I'm like, I'm not freak tall, like calm down, like I'm point guard tall. Like I'm Steph Curry tall, like I'm not even that tall, but like when people oh wow, you're really tall, and it's like, what did you? I don't even know what to say right now. Like based on what? Like the picture of your head, right? Yeah, exactly. And it's like, well, how did you what? Like, that's I don't even know what to say right now. So there's that too. Uh so that's a good one.

SPEAKER_00

Yep, yeah. So, final question. We've been talking for almost about 45-50 minutes. You know, I you know as well as I do when people leave, we want to leave them with one thing, like out of kind of taking our conversation down to what could we narrow it down to one thing that our audience could should leave with with today's conversation.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think just know that who you are is more than what you do, like you're a human being that happens to uh do that kind of work. Uh, you know, that who you are uh has nothing to do with your work and has nothing to do with your family. Uh, you know, that is you existed way before all of that. And if if you know, I mean, I started college and going for engineering. Had I not gotten a D in physics, I would have had a very different career trajectory than I did. Uh, but I'm still me, you know. So uh so don't let the outside influences impact you, like be you and then impact the world.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I love that. Well, this has been a great time, so much fun. That's all we got for everybody. We'll see you next time. See you bye. Congratulations. You made it all the

Final Thanks And Share Request

SPEAKER_00

way to the end. You're officially a one percenter. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Uncommon Communicator with me, your host, James Gable. Make sure you like and share this episode. This helps spread the message of communication to the world. Check out our website, The Uncommon Communicator, for more and connect with me on LinkedIn to keep building those communication skills. See you next time.